6.0 build/swap
Jun 29, 2022 | 01:52 PM
#21
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From: NC
OP,
You've received some great advice from the community. With your stall and goals we'd probably stick with your current cam to start with. It might not have the "chop" but it'll still have a noticeable idle with its 0* intake valve opening. It seems that your two main concerns are driveability and towing. You're already happy with this cam in a 5.3. The added displacement of the 6.0 will help across the entire range. A 215* @ .050 cam can net around +50 whp on a stock 6.0. With your worked over heads and planned compression this will be quite a change from the 5.3.
If anything we could see our Pro LS Truck stage 2 high-lift SUM-8720R1 being used but we'd start with the current cam. Specs on the 8720R1 are .600/.600, 218/227, 112+2. This is our go-two cam for the guy with a 6.0 that wants his truck hopped up some but still wants good manners, towing, and the ability to use the stock converter. In a 6.0 it'll have a noticeable idle similar to what your current cam will be. It's not much larger than the current cam but the added lift is what we really like. That added lift will improve power/torque across the range. Plus with wanting to stay with the current converter this is right about the limit before needing a 2,500+ stall. It will be happy out to 6,500+ with our SUM-174004 .600" lift beehives.
Getting back to compression and pistons. We have our 2618 forged Pro LS pistons. We noticed you want to be around 11-11.5:1. With our 2cc flat tops you'd be right around 11.4:1 with a .051" head gasket and your 59cc heads. One thing to note with our Pro LS pistons is they sit .005" in the hole with the factory 9.240" deck height. Not knowing the year of the 6.0 or what rods you have in it there are two possibilities for pistons.
- Gen III rods with .945" press-fit pins which would take our SUM-3269454030-2 pistons.
- Gen IV rods with .943" floating pins that would use our SUM-3269434030-2 pistons.
At this compression range and towing you'll want to make sure the tune is spot on and maybe even a bit conservative on timing. It would be a good idea to do some data logging while towing looking for knock. That's where you might have to dial back the timing. To be on the safe side we'd keep a bottle of octane booster handy.
Onto lifters. The Morel drop-ins are a great lifter. If you wanted fresh new lifters we offer the Morel-7717 drop-ins as SUM-HT217-16. They are available in our SUM-HTLSKIT3 lifter and tray kit.
Let us know if we can be of any further assistance. We'll be happy to help!
You've received some great advice from the community. With your stall and goals we'd probably stick with your current cam to start with. It might not have the "chop" but it'll still have a noticeable idle with its 0* intake valve opening. It seems that your two main concerns are driveability and towing. You're already happy with this cam in a 5.3. The added displacement of the 6.0 will help across the entire range. A 215* @ .050 cam can net around +50 whp on a stock 6.0. With your worked over heads and planned compression this will be quite a change from the 5.3.
If anything we could see our Pro LS Truck stage 2 high-lift SUM-8720R1 being used but we'd start with the current cam. Specs on the 8720R1 are .600/.600, 218/227, 112+2. This is our go-two cam for the guy with a 6.0 that wants his truck hopped up some but still wants good manners, towing, and the ability to use the stock converter. In a 6.0 it'll have a noticeable idle similar to what your current cam will be. It's not much larger than the current cam but the added lift is what we really like. That added lift will improve power/torque across the range. Plus with wanting to stay with the current converter this is right about the limit before needing a 2,500+ stall. It will be happy out to 6,500+ with our SUM-174004 .600" lift beehives.
Getting back to compression and pistons. We have our 2618 forged Pro LS pistons. We noticed you want to be around 11-11.5:1. With our 2cc flat tops you'd be right around 11.4:1 with a .051" head gasket and your 59cc heads. One thing to note with our Pro LS pistons is they sit .005" in the hole with the factory 9.240" deck height. Not knowing the year of the 6.0 or what rods you have in it there are two possibilities for pistons.
- Gen III rods with .945" press-fit pins which would take our SUM-3269454030-2 pistons.
- Gen IV rods with .943" floating pins that would use our SUM-3269434030-2 pistons.
At this compression range and towing you'll want to make sure the tune is spot on and maybe even a bit conservative on timing. It would be a good idea to do some data logging while towing looking for knock. That's where you might have to dial back the timing. To be on the safe side we'd keep a bottle of octane booster handy.
Onto lifters. The Morel drop-ins are a great lifter. If you wanted fresh new lifters we offer the Morel-7717 drop-ins as SUM-HT217-16. They are available in our SUM-HTLSKIT3 lifter and tray kit.
Let us know if we can be of any further assistance. We'll be happy to help!
Lots of great info and thanks for linking the part #’s as well! I should be talking with my machine shop first of next week and we will be starting to order parts and get stuff together. Thanks and I will keep y’all updated so you can keep the good insight coming.
Jul 1, 2022 | 01:36 AM
#22
100% Redneck
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,098
Likes: 1,344
From: MAGA COUNTRY
I would do the math to see if the small camshaft you have now will work with 11.0/11.5 static compression. Throwing the cam numbers in my cam timing software it shows the intake closing pretty early at 35.7* ABDC (your card shows 36.3*). The earlier you close the intake valve the higher the dynamic compression, plus with the relatively high static you may be pushing the dynamic compression to high.
The online dynamic compression calculators are a bit confusing as most need the cams @.006 numbers not the usual @.050 numbers on the cam card. If you decide to run the existing camshaft (or any other cam) work on getting the quench (gasket thickness) dialed in to help eliminate detonation. Remember you have the option for a custom camshaft grind tailor fitted to your engine specs and driving habits from any of the big cam grinders or guys like Pat G or Martin Smallwood.
The online dynamic compression calculators are a bit confusing as most need the cams @.006 numbers not the usual @.050 numbers on the cam card. If you decide to run the existing camshaft (or any other cam) work on getting the quench (gasket thickness) dialed in to help eliminate detonation. Remember you have the option for a custom camshaft grind tailor fitted to your engine specs and driving habits from any of the big cam grinders or guys like Pat G or Martin Smallwood.
Jul 1, 2022 | 09:15 AM
#23
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 320
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I would do the math to see if the small camshaft you have now will work with 11.0/11.5 static compression. Throwing the cam numbers in my cam timing software it shows the intake closing pretty early at 35.7* ABDC (your card shows 36.3*). The earlier you close the intake valve the higher the dynamic compression, plus with the relatively high static you may be pushing the dynamic compression to high.
The online dynamic compression calculators are a bit confusing as most need the cams @.006 numbers not the usual @.050 numbers on the cam card. If you decide to run the existing camshaft (or any other cam) work on getting the quench (gasket thickness) dialed in to help eliminate detonation. Remember you have the option for a custom camshaft grind tailor fitted to your engine specs and driving habits from any of the big cam grinders or guys like Pat G or Martin Smallwood.
The online dynamic compression calculators are a bit confusing as most need the cams @.006 numbers not the usual @.050 numbers on the cam card. If you decide to run the existing camshaft (or any other cam) work on getting the quench (gasket thickness) dialed in to help eliminate detonation. Remember you have the option for a custom camshaft grind tailor fitted to your engine specs and driving habits from any of the big cam grinders or guys like Pat G or Martin Smallwood.
Jul 1, 2022 | 03:22 PM
#24
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Joined: Sep 2009
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From: NC
I would do the math to see if the small camshaft you have now will work with 11.0/11.5 static compression. Throwing the cam numbers in my cam timing software it shows the intake closing pretty early at 35.7* ABDC (your card shows 36.3*). The earlier you close the intake valve the higher the dynamic compression, plus with the relatively high static you may be pushing the dynamic compression to high.
The online dynamic compression calculators are a bit confusing as most need the cams @.006 numbers not the usual @.050 numbers on the cam card. If you decide to run the existing camshaft (or any other cam) work on getting the quench (gasket thickness) dialed in to help eliminate detonation. Remember you have the option for a custom camshaft grind tailor fitted to your engine specs and driving habits from any of the big cam grinders or guys like Pat G or Martin Smallwood.
The online dynamic compression calculators are a bit confusing as most need the cams @.006 numbers not the usual @.050 numbers on the cam card. If you decide to run the existing camshaft (or any other cam) work on getting the quench (gasket thickness) dialed in to help eliminate detonation. Remember you have the option for a custom camshaft grind tailor fitted to your engine specs and driving habits from any of the big cam grinders or guys like Pat G or Martin Smallwood.
Thanks for the heads up on that. Waiting to see what im going to do with pistons and then get final deck clearance numbers. The heads im running have already been milled a pretty fair amount(59cc combustion chamber)so if anymore metal needs to be removed I would rather it come from the deck since im more than likely sticking with factory rods/crank.
Jul 1, 2022 | 03:24 PM
#25
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From: NC
Sorry im not real knowledgeable on the info you’re putting out there. Could you lay it out for me in simpler terms?
Jul 1, 2022 | 08:30 PM
#26
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B) As RedXray said, "dynamic compression ratio" is based on intake valve closing point at .006" along with static compression ratio. It's considered an indicator of octane tolerance for an engine (although this is often debated). This might explain why it had great driving manners in the 5.3L with a mile torque convertor. But with a high compression 6.0L it may be difficult to tune for premium pump gas.
Jul 1, 2022 | 09:54 PM
#27
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From: NC
A) The acceleration/deceleration ramps from advertised to .050" are extremely quick on that camshaft. This can effect harmonics and add stress on valvetrain components (including the valve seats on closing).
B) As RedXray said, "dynamic compression ratio" is based on intake valve closing point at .006" along with static compression ratio. It's considered an indicator of octane tolerance for an engine (although this is often debated). This might explain why it had great driving manners in the 5.3L with a mile torque convertor. But with a high compression 6.0L it may be difficult to tune for premium pump gas.
B) As RedXray said, "dynamic compression ratio" is based on intake valve closing point at .006" along with static compression ratio. It's considered an indicator of octane tolerance for an engine (although this is often debated). This might explain why it had great driving manners in the 5.3L with a mile torque convertor. But with a high compression 6.0L it may be difficult to tune for premium pump gas.
Ok that definitely helps and great info to know.
Do you have a specific cam(s) in mind I should be looking at then with the info on the engine that I currently have? I plan on running the same converter after the engine swap.
Jul 2, 2022 | 08:35 AM
#28
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Joined: Jun 2011
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Same convertor and planning on towing, I think the cam Summit recommended (Sum-8720R1) would be an excellent choice. Although not a large jump in duration comparing the 0.050" lift, the advertised is larger which should be more in line for dynamic compression ratio. And the additional lift compared to current, should take advantage of the 226cc headflow.
You could also consider the Sum-8715R1 222/234 115+3 or Cam Motion TItan 2 LS1 CXM-03-01-0011 (221/226 112+2). They won't have the same towing grunt as the 8720R1, but likely won't feel much different than how your 5.3L pulls with your current combination.
You could also consider the Sum-8715R1 222/234 115+3 or Cam Motion TItan 2 LS1 CXM-03-01-0011 (221/226 112+2). They won't have the same towing grunt as the 8720R1, but likely won't feel much different than how your 5.3L pulls with your current combination.
Last edited by 68Formula; Jul 3, 2022 at 08:38 AM.
Jul 9, 2022 | 12:53 PM
#30
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,183
Likes: 105
From: FL
JMHO - killer flowing set of heads... would be a bummer to not get the most out of them. I have an 04 LQ4 swapped into my 01. Stock 317s currently, with an EPS 214/220 .598/.604 111+2. It drives/tows nice, signs off early though. 
It is a cam geared towards a 4.8/5.3 with a 3500 stall, by the description - although I expected it to not be so mild in my 6.0L Go figure) I have a stock 80E/converter in my truck and it's fine. (stock 80E converter will flash to around 2400-2500 by my logs)
With that said, I will be installing a set of PRC Stage 2.5 59cc 706/862 heads, and already have a larger cam - 224/232, similar lift to my current cam, 114+2 LSA. I currently have a TBSS intake manifold and a NW 92mm TB on the truck - even with my current "baby" cam - it liked the upgrade. I'm switching the intake/TB to a FAST LSXRT and NW 102mm TB when I change the heads and cam. (Got a crackhead deal on them NIB) I'm running 31lb/hr 8.1L non marine injectors, swapping to 52lb/hr Gen 4 EV6 6.2L flex fuel injectors when I swap the top end.
If you are going through the effort, step up the camshaft, upgrade the intake manifold to let it breathe, and get a converter to match. You'll still be able to tow, and it won't drive horrible.
It is a cam geared towards a 4.8/5.3 with a 3500 stall, by the description - although I expected it to not be so mild in my 6.0L Go figure) I have a stock 80E/converter in my truck and it's fine. (stock 80E converter will flash to around 2400-2500 by my logs)With that said, I will be installing a set of PRC Stage 2.5 59cc 706/862 heads, and already have a larger cam - 224/232, similar lift to my current cam, 114+2 LSA. I currently have a TBSS intake manifold and a NW 92mm TB on the truck - even with my current "baby" cam - it liked the upgrade. I'm switching the intake/TB to a FAST LSXRT and NW 102mm TB when I change the heads and cam. (Got a crackhead deal on them NIB) I'm running 31lb/hr 8.1L non marine injectors, swapping to 52lb/hr Gen 4 EV6 6.2L flex fuel injectors when I swap the top end.
If you are going through the effort, step up the camshaft, upgrade the intake manifold to let it breathe, and get a converter to match. You'll still be able to tow, and it won't drive horrible.