Yelo

OK....first off, ALL I AM DOING IS ASKING A QUESTION AND MAKING A POINT HERE.....I AM NOT TRYING TO START A WAR OR CREATE AN ABUSED POST

Now that that is out of the way......

First...The Point.......We WERE discussing the positives/negatives of Crossed Drilled/ Slotted Rotors in another post and it was stated that "outgassing"....which is that main reason for cross-drilling and/or slotting.....is not a problem any more due to modern pad design. I feel that statement is true ONLY UNDER CERTAIN CONDITIONS. Let me explain......that statement IS true IF you have 100% CERAMIC or 100% METALLIC brake pads.....those pads DO NOT "outgas" enough to measure. If you have SEMI-METALLIC or ORGANIC brake pads (which I would guess accounts for probably 98% of all OEM pads) "outgassing" IS still a problem because as the organinc material in the pads breaks down under the extreme heat load it is converted to gas (this is a basic law of thermodynamics....it CANNOT be refuted...NO WAY, NO HOW)....while it may not be the problem to the extent that others are making it out to be it is still a fact that ORGANIC or SEMI-METALLIC pads WILL 'outgas" measurably due to the CARBON-BASED material used in their construction.

Now....I AM NOT saying that crossed-drilled/slotted rotors are better or worse that standard rotors.....I am simply correcting an error in a discussion that was being held (and due to the stupidity of others.....locked)

Now...the question....Assuming (given the above information) that it would be beneficial (due strictly to pad construction)...even in small way....to use crossed-drilled/slotted rotors with semi-metallic or organic brake pads, would there be any measurable gain or loss in stopping distance between the different types of pads ??.....this is assuming ALL are used with the same brand/size/type slotted/cross-drilled rotors and all types of pads are tested (ceramic/metallic/semi-metallic/organic)

I WANT VERIFIABLE ANSWERS (OR AT LEAST INTELLIGENT ONES)...NOT BULLSHIT OR HEAR-SAY !!!, ALL ARE WELCOME TO ANSWER BUT THE ANSWERS MUST BE RELAVANT TO THE QUESTION AND AN EXPLANATION FOR THE ANSWER MUST BE GIVEN

AND IF THIS THREAD GET ABUSED I WILL REPORT IT TO THE MODERATORS !!!!! (ASSUMING THEY DON'T CATCH IT FIRST)

Thanks
Al

F150boy84

If you swap to the same size rotor(no bigger than stock) and you use aftermarket pads(approximately 80% are not organic as long as you pay more than 15 bucks for them), You can in no way prove that you can get better braking force. If you ran a thermocouple onto the rotor and did 10, 60-0 stops you will stop the same distance if not more than oem pads and rotors. The rotor might be slightly cooler, but 5 degrees doesnt matter **** to a junk of metal thats and inch, inch and a half thick. If you increase your rotor size to compensate for the lost braking material (holes in rotors), and therefore you get bigger pads. then yes you will decrease your braking distance. the more surface area you use to place the pad to the rotor, the shorter the distance you will stop. But I am pretty sure we are just talking about swapping OEM size **** in. So by tests i have run for Gm, Ford and Chrysler. All of the data i gave to them tells me NO, it does not help braking. Your best bet if you want good pads is to go with metallic if you are not using CD-ed rotors to vent the gas, becuase; if you do a few high speed stops with ceramic pads, you will glaze them over. If you truly want better braking capacity. You will need to get a better brand caliper (double piston), bigger rotors and bigger pads made of better material. THose are the only things that help braking is the braking surface. plain and simple.

treyZ28

Nick,
I agree. Even when I was in the systems group there, our stock lincoln LS pads did not outgas. You would have to drive like a real ******* to get pads to outgas. I'm not talking "agressive" or "late to work," we are talking Road racing in downtown detriot or something.

If you ARE racing they make pads for specific heat ranges/driving styles. Even OEM pads dont really outgas. If you are hauling 3000lbs it might change a BIT, even then I dont see it happening.

If you want to check, go 80-0. park. hop out and sniff around the wheel. You can smell outgassing. Pads today just dont outgas unless they are $4.63 NAPA pads.

If pads did still outgas, then cross drilling would be a great idea. The holes still create hot spots, reduce thermal mass, do not assist in cooling and make them less durable.

Also to expand on what nick was saying, Larger rotors are awesome. More leverage, more thermal mass (bigger heat sink) and you can usually run a bigger pad. Unfortunately they can warp quicker *I believe* due to the fact that they are so much longer. However, most manufacturers use a ticker plate with a larger diameter to correct this issue.

moregrip

iTrader: (8)

so with a stock rotor, metallic pads will marginally increase braking?

what are stock pads made of? if I remember right, organic materials leave the least brake dust, so I'm guessing they are mostly organic....please advise.

greentahoe

iTrader: (2)

I havent seen anyone offer larger than stock rotor upgrades for our trucks with the exception of Baer and whoever else offers the cross drillled and slotted rotors. To get a bigger solid rotor and piston (to hold the larger pads) would probably be very expensive, but where if anywhere could you get a setup like this. Would it be as easy as getting a 14 inch rotor and larger 2 piston caliper and new mounting brackets??

moregrip

iTrader: (8)

I think SSBC makes some upgrades

F150boy84

In order to increase rotor size, you will need new rotors, pads, and carrier(holds the caliper to the knuckle). Now i am not going to debate whether or not the cd-ing allows the rotors to cool easier, becasue they do but only SLIGHTLY. and when we are talking about stopping a heavy truck a few degrees here or there doesn't matter for diddly. I can tell you about the different type of brake pads..basically its your choice on how you drive and what kind of pad best fits your needs. Organic pads are made of cellulose bound with a resin, with less than 20% metal content. They have a good coefficient of friction at low temperatures and are very quiet, but are not good for high performance applications. Semi-metallic pads are like organic pads with some powdered metal (less than 60%), usually brass, iron, or bronze, added to stabilize the coefficient of friction at higher temperatures, making them awesome for all-around use and quite common as OEM pads(I have these on my truck). Metallic pads are made of at least 60% powdered metal that is pressed into a mold at high temperature with a bit of organic binder to form a somewhat homogeneous block. Most metallic pads have excellent grip at high temperatures but are not suitable for street use because they often are noisy, grip poorly when cold, chew up rotors, and make black dust that gets deposited on the wheels. Carbon blend pads are probably the ultimate pad for street and track use. Carbon is added to a metallic or Kevlar matrix to improve heat absorption (cooler running rotors) and durability (long-life yet low rotor wear) while providing excellent friction properties over a wide range of temperatures (from cool street to hot track use). Carbon carbon pads must be used with carbon rotors and are reserved for high-energy races.

F150boy84

So in summary, and to answer Yelo's question. Yes there is a noticable difference between pad types, you just need to find what type of pad is right for your type of driving.

moregrip

iTrader: (8)

who makes a Carbon blend pad?

treyZ28

Depending on driving type. When they get under some heavy loads i think they would actualy do worse due to the lesser thermal mass thing. At super light braking where there isn't much airflow; I could see that happening but who cares about 5-10 degrees on a ROTOR. You wont see brake fade at those temps anyway.

You would be BEST off with a larger rotor and a blank one. Larger and cross drilled might be better than stock, but it’s the “larger” making it better, not the holes.

Running the wrong/cheap pad and getting cross drilled rotors to correct the out gassing sounds pretty dumb to me. Not only is it more expensive but braking quality (durability, force) decreases as well. Its like putting a piece of sheet metal in front of your radiator and then running a super stronger pusher and puller fan.