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FI Technical Discussuion to End All! 2nd try :)

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Old Oct 2, 2005 | 10:47 PM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by moregrip
question?

is there any real interest in the more technical side of things?
Let's continue on with the heat issue. As you mentioned there are several sources of heat including compression(and where it takes place), friction. recycling(roots), heat soak, etc.

We can discuss the compression end of it more but after doing some logging today I was reminded that my IATs would go up around 10*C during a short WOT run but they would increase 10-20* more while shutdown or idling. So unless you keep moving, you are starting out in the hole for the next run. Are some FI systems more affected by heat soak than others? What can we do to mitigate this factor?
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Old Oct 2, 2005 | 10:52 PM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by mjhoward
What is bad is that is one situation that changing the factory emission system would improve emissions.
Not that this is on topic....but the gains that you would recieve by removing the emission system would be minimal at best.
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Old Oct 2, 2005 | 11:06 PM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by DrX
Let's continue on with the heat issue. As you mentioned there are several sources of heat including compression(and where it takes place), friction. recycling(roots), heat soak, etc.

We can discuss the compression end of it more but after doing some logging today I was reminded that my IATs would go up around 10*C during a short WOT run but they would increase 10-20* more while shutdown or idling. So unless you keep moving, you are starting out in the hole for the next run. Are some FI systems more affected by heat soak than others? What can we do to mitigate this factor?
i think a heat soaked intercooler is a good place to start looking for more power and more consistant power. on the street i can be rolling along and pull over and make a run so things are nice and cool when i make the run. at the track i am likely to be sitting in the stageing lanes for 1/2 an hour and things heat up before i even get to the line.

by spraying methanal(not as my main fuel) right before the TB, my consistancy seems to have gone way up. i can come right off the highway and pull up and make a run or sit in the lanes and watch my iat's creep up and either way i get prety consistant results. before i might see .5sec slower time when it was nice and heatsoaked like iat's starting 40deg over ambiant. but now i dont see much change at all.

if you dont want to consider meth or on a radix it is hard to find the right place to inject it then some time figureing out how to keep the iat's as low as you can before the run would net some good results. stuff like a larger heat exchanger, ducting or airdam to make sure the air being pulled thru the heat exchanger is fresh and not recycled out of the engine compartment. fresh air into the air filter if practical but this wouldn't be as important as a nice big heat exchanger with fresh air being drawn thru it.
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Old Oct 2, 2005 | 11:18 PM
  #94  
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First Hand Experience with IAT's and Radix:
Heat Soak has never been an issue for me at the track, whether sitting in the lanes or running back to back to back to back. I'm constantly monitoring IAT's and for ***** and giggles I added a second heat exhanger and my average temp dropped about 3-10 degrees across the board. The biggest effect on IAT's that I've seen is being able to run an efan while staging, this keeps IAT's well in check. BlownChevy has his set up this way.
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Old Oct 3, 2005 | 01:31 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by BlownChevy
Not that this is on topic....but the gains that you would recieve by removing the emission system would be minimal at best.
there is 15-25rwhp to be had just by removing the cats thats good gains
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Old Oct 3, 2005 | 07:47 PM
  #96  
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Eaton/Radix:
VE represents the supercharger's ability to gulp air. The VE of a typical Roots charger will peak, then fall off slightly as speed increases, BUT, Eaton's(ala' radix) VE will climb steadily throughout the entire rpm range, food for thought maybe
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Old Oct 3, 2005 | 08:13 PM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by moregrip
Eaton/Radix:
VE represents the supercharger's ability to gulp air. The VE of a typical Roots charger will peak, then fall off slightly as speed increases, BUT, Eaton's(ala' radix) VE will climb steadily throughout the entire rpm range, food for thought maybe
are you sugesting the VE only goes up with rpm? at 20,000rpm the ve is higher than it is at 14,000rpm?
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Old Oct 3, 2005 | 08:49 PM
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I think what he's saying is that it'll climb steadily through its rated or intended rpm range.

Any hard data on this grippy?
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Old Oct 3, 2005 | 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by moregrip
Eaton/Radix:
VE represents the supercharger's ability to gulp air. The VE of a typical Roots charger will peak, then fall off slightly as speed increases, BUT, Eaton's(ala' radix) VE will climb steadily throughout the entire rpm range, food for thought maybe
OK,so where do I find a 2.5" pulley?I bet a Radix will really scream at 20,000 rpm.This might be the ultimate Radix durability test.
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Old Oct 3, 2005 | 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by GMC_DUDE
MJHoward, you almost have me convinced to buy a 3.25" pulley from the company you specified earlier. Am I correct in that you ran such a pulley with the standard radix tune without issues? Thinking out loud here, my AFR in PE mode with the radix is 11:1, and was about 12.2:1 stock. Now with 11 psig boost instead of the current 8 psig, that translates into 25.7 psia instead of 22.7 psia, or 13.2% more air. Assuming worst case of no additional fuel, that would give an AFR of 12.45:1, or about where I was before. Of course in feedback mode, the loop should keep the AFR right at stoich, so fuel shouldn't be a problem. As to timing, the chart shows that my effective compression ratio will increase by about 2 points, so some timing reduction is probably in order. Is there enough span between the high and low octane tables to absorb this, or should the tables be retarded some, and if so, by what amount? I have HPTuners, so I can do this. Lastly, I am about due for some new spark plugs, so would it be wise to go one heat range colder?
I ran a 3.25 pulley with stock manifolds, corsa catback, stock cam, tr6 plugs with the stock tune. I then put cam, headers and lost 2lbs and boosted back up with the 3.00. I did all that with the stock tune and 93 octane in Alabama August heat. The timing was around 16 stock and the a/f with the mods was in the 12's. my first dyno pull was 387hp & 418tq with only riching it up in the 11:1 range to just be safe. I never experienced any noticable knock before but I didn't have any logging software to see if it was getting any. I put Meth inj. on it when I did the dyno tune. I am now running 23* total timing with the mods in my sig. My IAT's climbed to 201* and I had one little knock spike so I just installed a custom fabbed Intercooler heat exchanger I made out of a Jegster radiator. It is almost 3x's the size. I am going to install the 2 bar map and have it retuned and get some more dyno #'s soon. My knock table is now at 17 degrees. Hope this helps.
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