Cam Motion 5.3 Stage 2 "drop in" cam testing results (in depth)
08-08-2014, 11:49 AM
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Cam Motion 5.3 Stage 2 "drop in" cam testing results (in depth)
The weekend before last I stuck one of these in my 1999 Silverado 2wd short bed for testing. The truck just crossed 170,000 miles.
Stock cam baseline mods: 2.5" duals with Thrush Welded mufflers (tied into stock manifolds, no crossover pipe), ebay CAI, self ported TB, EFI Live tune (ls1 timing table, adjusted shift points/pressures, remove TM, slightly leaned PE, remove burst knock).
Stock converter. Stock 3.42 gears, 275/60r17 tires on GM 17" aluminum wheels. Pull was made in 2nd gear with unlocked converter
Immediately after the dyno I let it cool and tore it down. The only things changed were the cam, valve springs, water pump gaskets, oil, and coolant.
The Cam Motion Stage 2 drop in 5.3 truck cam is a 205/210 .510/.510 115+4. I used the solid blue GMPP beehive springs because I didn't trust worn out stock springs for the added lift even though it was mild.
TUNING
The truck started right up on the stock tune and you would never know it was cammed (I later tuned lope in for personal preference). It was quickly made apparent even this baby cam was enough to set off the KR issue with the 99 PCM, it was pulling 8* timing on any throttle input. Topped off my 89 octane with 91 and lowered timing and it still did the same thing.
With some help from LSX Power Tuning, I loaded a stock 02 operating system tune into the truck and immediately things were looking up. I corrected the injector tables for the smaller 99 injectors and made all the same changes to the new tune as my old one and then used a wideband to dial in the MAF and VE table using EFI Lives CALC.VET procedure. Ended up with stock ls1 timing table from a Corvette and dialed in PE to ~12.75-12.8 WOT.
Stock 99 injectors are at ~88% injector duty cycle
Results (Dyno will be done 8/9/14 in the AM, same dyno)
Seat of the pants gains are easily apparent from idle to 6000rpm which is as high as I've pulled it so far. Throttle response is crisp and the thing will just plain pull from any RPM. Downshifting on the large hills around here is severely reduced and even if I let the converter lock in OD at ~40mph the truck will pull itself around effortlessly at 1000rpms or so. On the interstate it will cruise along effortlessly at the 70mph speed limit and rolling into the throttle without unlocking or downshifting still gets a crisp speed increase for passing traffic. I don't have anything I tow regularly, but this seems like it would be an ideal cam for those who do.
This cam was designed by Kip to boost low-mid range and I was afraid it was going to fall on it's face up top, but I was wrong. It pulls noticeably harder, really kicking in around 2000rpm or so, all the way up to my 5800rpm shift point. If it's still pulling on the dyno, I will raise the limiter and go further.
Maf readings prior to the cam were averaging 29 lbs/min peak which seems typical of all the 5.3 engines I have logged, including a SSR truck. New average is just over 34 lbs/min peak.
I let a friend who has owned several of these 5.3 short wides in various stages of modding drive it and he agreed it was impressive how it pulls just right off idle and from anywhere through the rev range.
Overall, I am quite impressed and really wish that these trucks had come like this from the factory. A lot of people seem to hail the 350 Vortec trucks as having the advantage down low over the 5.3, but something like this will push the 5.3 well beyond any 350 truck I have driven. I also expect my fuel mileage to increase.
So far I have done far too much WOT for tuning and plain old playing to accurately assess MPG, but it's 200 miles through the mountains to the dyno I use so I will get some good numbers there and back. Truck used to average 18-18.5 mpg one way and 18.5-19 mpg the other way. Has seen a best of 20.5 mpg on a flatter journey.
Once my tune was finished, I adjusted the idle timing over/under speed settings and got it to sound choppier which I like. Before, it was basically stock sounding except on cold start it had the slightest hint of lope if you were looking for it:
Cam Motion 5.3 stage 2 drop in cam - YouTube
I will update the thread as testing continues and tomorrow will have dyno numbers barring catastrophe. So far, it is definitely something I would recommend to a person who has a daily driver truck and doesn't want the hassle of a converter, extensive tuning, wearing out valve springs, needing gears, or replacing a bunch of other parts. Instead of losing low end, it picked up a decent bit which is another plus for the way I use my truck.
Stock cam baseline mods: 2.5" duals with Thrush Welded mufflers (tied into stock manifolds, no crossover pipe), ebay CAI, self ported TB, EFI Live tune (ls1 timing table, adjusted shift points/pressures, remove TM, slightly leaned PE, remove burst knock).
Stock converter. Stock 3.42 gears, 275/60r17 tires on GM 17" aluminum wheels. Pull was made in 2nd gear with unlocked converter
Immediately after the dyno I let it cool and tore it down. The only things changed were the cam, valve springs, water pump gaskets, oil, and coolant.
The Cam Motion Stage 2 drop in 5.3 truck cam is a 205/210 .510/.510 115+4. I used the solid blue GMPP beehive springs because I didn't trust worn out stock springs for the added lift even though it was mild.
TUNING
The truck started right up on the stock tune and you would never know it was cammed (I later tuned lope in for personal preference). It was quickly made apparent even this baby cam was enough to set off the KR issue with the 99 PCM, it was pulling 8* timing on any throttle input. Topped off my 89 octane with 91 and lowered timing and it still did the same thing.
With some help from LSX Power Tuning, I loaded a stock 02 operating system tune into the truck and immediately things were looking up. I corrected the injector tables for the smaller 99 injectors and made all the same changes to the new tune as my old one and then used a wideband to dial in the MAF and VE table using EFI Lives CALC.VET procedure. Ended up with stock ls1 timing table from a Corvette and dialed in PE to ~12.75-12.8 WOT.
Stock 99 injectors are at ~88% injector duty cycle
Results (Dyno will be done 8/9/14 in the AM, same dyno)
Seat of the pants gains are easily apparent from idle to 6000rpm which is as high as I've pulled it so far. Throttle response is crisp and the thing will just plain pull from any RPM. Downshifting on the large hills around here is severely reduced and even if I let the converter lock in OD at ~40mph the truck will pull itself around effortlessly at 1000rpms or so. On the interstate it will cruise along effortlessly at the 70mph speed limit and rolling into the throttle without unlocking or downshifting still gets a crisp speed increase for passing traffic. I don't have anything I tow regularly, but this seems like it would be an ideal cam for those who do.
This cam was designed by Kip to boost low-mid range and I was afraid it was going to fall on it's face up top, but I was wrong. It pulls noticeably harder, really kicking in around 2000rpm or so, all the way up to my 5800rpm shift point. If it's still pulling on the dyno, I will raise the limiter and go further.
Maf readings prior to the cam were averaging 29 lbs/min peak which seems typical of all the 5.3 engines I have logged, including a SSR truck. New average is just over 34 lbs/min peak.
I let a friend who has owned several of these 5.3 short wides in various stages of modding drive it and he agreed it was impressive how it pulls just right off idle and from anywhere through the rev range.
Overall, I am quite impressed and really wish that these trucks had come like this from the factory. A lot of people seem to hail the 350 Vortec trucks as having the advantage down low over the 5.3, but something like this will push the 5.3 well beyond any 350 truck I have driven. I also expect my fuel mileage to increase.
So far I have done far too much WOT for tuning and plain old playing to accurately assess MPG, but it's 200 miles through the mountains to the dyno I use so I will get some good numbers there and back. Truck used to average 18-18.5 mpg one way and 18.5-19 mpg the other way. Has seen a best of 20.5 mpg on a flatter journey.
Once my tune was finished, I adjusted the idle timing over/under speed settings and got it to sound choppier which I like. Before, it was basically stock sounding except on cold start it had the slightest hint of lope if you were looking for it:
Cam Motion 5.3 stage 2 drop in cam - YouTube
I will update the thread as testing continues and tomorrow will have dyno numbers barring catastrophe. So far, it is definitely something I would recommend to a person who has a daily driver truck and doesn't want the hassle of a converter, extensive tuning, wearing out valve springs, needing gears, or replacing a bunch of other parts. Instead of losing low end, it picked up a decent bit which is another plus for the way I use my truck.
08-08-2014, 12:47 PM
#3
I wish I could have data logged mine before I had my cam swap done to see what lb/min it was pulling before. But tuning makes all the difference in the world for sure. Keep working on the tune and it'll keep getting better.
On a crappy base tune after the swap I was pulling 35.97lb/min and was at 86% IDC, while shifting at 5900.
On Justin's(blackbear) tune, Im now pulling 39.35lb/min with 94.5% IDC and shifting at 6000.
He's tweaked it a little more since then but I haven't done a data long in awhile since it has been so hot out. And this is with a JFR 212/212 .561/.561 112 Isky cam.
So i'd say you're doing pretty good so far!
On a crappy base tune after the swap I was pulling 35.97lb/min and was at 86% IDC, while shifting at 5900.
On Justin's(blackbear) tune, Im now pulling 39.35lb/min with 94.5% IDC and shifting at 6000.
He's tweaked it a little more since then but I haven't done a data long in awhile since it has been so hot out. And this is with a JFR 212/212 .561/.561 112 Isky cam.
So i'd say you're doing pretty good so far!
08-08-2014, 01:33 PM
#4
This thread is spot-on for me. I've got that exact cam waiting to go into a new 5.3 I'm building for my '04 ESCB. 3.42 gears and 16" tires. Its my DD and I haul and tow regularly.
What do you think about using the PAC 1211X springs with this cam? Danny at CM recommended a 140 seat, 325-390# over the nose for that cam. Not sure how those blue GMPP springs compare?? Do you know the spring rate for that spring?
What ICL did you install the cam on? Straight up? What lifters, pushrods and rockers did you use?
How would you expect this cam to behave with 10:1 and 241 heads?
What do you think about using the PAC 1211X springs with this cam? Danny at CM recommended a 140 seat, 325-390# over the nose for that cam. Not sure how those blue GMPP springs compare?? Do you know the spring rate for that spring?
What ICL did you install the cam on? Straight up? What lifters, pushrods and rockers did you use?
How would you expect this cam to behave with 10:1 and 241 heads?
08-08-2014, 01:58 PM
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What do you think about using the PAC 1211X springs with this cam? Danny at CM recommended a 140 seat, 325-390# over the nose for that cam. Not sure how those blue GMPP springs compare?? Do you know the spring rate for that spring?
What ICL did you install the cam on? Straight up? What lifters, pushrods and rockers did you use?
How would you expect this cam to behave with 10:1 and 241 heads?
When I spoke to Kip he didn't even mention needing to change springs before I brought it up and told him what I intended to use since they are by far the most budget friendly option and he had no objections. I figured the cam is a lot like a ls6 cam but will see less RPM so ls6 equivalent springs should suffice.
Cam is installed straight up. Stock lifters, stock pushrods, stock rockers, and stock timing set (check for excessive wear or slack).
I literally only changed cam, springs, water pump gaskets, crank bolt, and fluids. My oil pump keeps over 40psi warm at idle and the engine never makes noise or lifter tap. It has to be below freezing to even get piston slap. I made sure my pushrods were straight and reused them. I've never suspected it was a replacement engine, but did notice it had the 2 piece valve seal set, not the top hat style. So maybe someone has done major maintanence or replaced the engine? It seems awfully clean inside for 170k miles but outside isn't spotless by any means. If someone shows me where I can easily find the VIN stamp I can try to see it.
This cam with more compression and better flowing heads should make even more off idle torque for sure. Talk about a stump puller.
As soon as the stainless longtube headers from Speed Engineering drop, I will be getting a set of those to add to the truck. Past that, I'm calling her done and enjoying the new cam.
Last edited by thunderstruck507; 08-08-2014 at 02:04 PM.
08-09-2014, 03:19 PM
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Dyno was a pleasant surprise:
I will get a cleaner scan of the sheet Monday. Very pleased with these results on such a mild cam.
As reference the dyno being stingy, a ZL1 automatic with 400 miles on the odometer went on right after me and did a best pull of 436rwhp. I thought those were typically in the ~460-470rwhp range stock.
I will get a cleaner scan of the sheet Monday. Very pleased with these results on such a mild cam.
As reference the dyno being stingy, a ZL1 automatic with 400 miles on the odometer went on right after me and did a best pull of 436rwhp. I thought those were typically in the ~460-470rwhp range stock.
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08-09-2014, 04:12 PM
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I couldn't be happier. Everything I have seen on the ls6 cam in a 5.3 is that it gains the same (or less) and needs to run higher in the RPMs to do it. I've also read numerous times that it loses some tq down low in comparison to the stock cam. My truck is a daily driver and will be used for occasional hauling and towing. Won't be getting a converter or even gears.
This cam picks up from idle to 6000rpm (where it was still pulling). I just couldn't do a dyno run from much lower. I did another pull from 2750rpm I can post later and it was already at just under 250rwtq by then.
I know the numbers look "low", but it is expected on this particular dyno and especially so pulling 2nd gear instead of 3rd. This post was to show the gains, the numbers themselves don't really mean anything to me.
This cam picks up from idle to 6000rpm (where it was still pulling). I just couldn't do a dyno run from much lower. I did another pull from 2750rpm I can post later and it was already at just under 250rwtq by then.
I know the numbers look "low", but it is expected on this particular dyno and especially so pulling 2nd gear instead of 3rd. This post was to show the gains, the numbers themselves don't really mean anything to me.
08-09-2014, 04:47 PM
#9
I didn't lose any low end torque with an ls6 cam on my 4.8 it's a daily driver too and I get 22 mpg with 3:42s cruising 70-80 mph that's with pacesetter longtubes y pipe and magnaflow muffler no cats and a tune
08-09-2014, 06:44 PM
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Sounds very similar then. Don't have headers yet, but will get some eventually. I got 19mpg on the trip down to the dyno, over 50 miles of that was in town. Also included the dyno runs and several WOT blasts passing traffic. Trip was from Fayetteville, AR to Wright City, OK which goes through the Ozark and Ouchita mountains, very little of the drive is flat. I expect to see better MPG on my trip home tomorrow since it will all be civil driving minus any passing which gets kinda rowdy due to slow people piling up behind trucks or tourists through the curvy parts of the mountains...when I get a straight stretch I'm often passing several at a time in long WOT runs.
Never driven a truck with the ls6 cam personally but a friend owned one for a while. He was still very impressed with the low end grunt when he drove mine the other day.
I was given the cam to test and that's what I've done. Just trying to report my observations and data as accurately as possible so other people who might be in the market can make an honest choice. I was honestly expecting much less from the cam, but it met and exceding my expectations so I give it my full blessing for it's intended purpose. Kip will be the first to tell you it's not a high HP cam, was just designed as a nice upgrade to stock that will boost low-mid range. I don't think either of us expected the top end performance to be so great. I will be calling him Monday to discuss things a little more in depth.
I will also continue to report MPG tracking and anything else that arises, positive or negative. This includes another follow up dyno when Speed Engineering stainless longtubes are available. I won't ever install another set of ceramic or painted headers and don't want to drop big money on the truck. ~$220 and stainless is right up my alley
Never driven a truck with the ls6 cam personally but a friend owned one for a while. He was still very impressed with the low end grunt when he drove mine the other day.
I was given the cam to test and that's what I've done. Just trying to report my observations and data as accurately as possible so other people who might be in the market can make an honest choice. I was honestly expecting much less from the cam, but it met and exceding my expectations so I give it my full blessing for it's intended purpose. Kip will be the first to tell you it's not a high HP cam, was just designed as a nice upgrade to stock that will boost low-mid range. I don't think either of us expected the top end performance to be so great. I will be calling him Monday to discuss things a little more in depth.
I will also continue to report MPG tracking and anything else that arises, positive or negative. This includes another follow up dyno when Speed Engineering stainless longtubes are available. I won't ever install another set of ceramic or painted headers and don't want to drop big money on the truck. ~$220 and stainless is right up my alley