Really glad you spoke up Mark. Nice to meet you. I'm Gilbert.

I don't agree with your comment about staying away from Alto products. Not even a little bit. I have their paper type red clutches (same material as the band you mentioned) living large, in countless applications that have .063 clutches and same thickness steels. These are in direct drums that see well over 1,500 h/p and shift anywhere between 7,600 and 8,500 rpm in heavy door cars. I have been building transmissions with Alto components since the early 80's. And I believe the key is understanding which application is appropriate for which clutch. Last year, I chose the clutches for the transmission in this thread based on the way I set up the hydraulics, clearances and the way the OP here was going to operate it.

But I do get your point. And I do welcome opinions from other builders too! That's how we get better right?

As far as the use of one clutch or another, I do not really get too excited about it all. Everyone has their own opinion as to which clutch to use where. I like the BW/HE clutches in my 60e 3/4 clutches... but I use thin components in that one too see.

Here is a fine example of one of my th400's behind a 570" motor with a crossbar plate and a fogger, both pilled to 300 h/p. I was asked to rebuild this transmission as it was originally built by a well known builder but had failed numerous times last year. I did my thing to this one back in february. I changed ratios in the transmission and the rear axle so he could use his fogger on the street. Now, we turn the plate on at the hit and the fogger on around .6 seconds after that. You might be surprised to know that the clutches in this one are exactly what went into the build in this thread. The video below does not depict my work as it was filmed last year, however we'll all see plenty of videos of this car on television this summer.

1500hp Monte Carlo STREET BEAST - YouTube

I'm sure Richard could point us to more than a few videos of his pickup truck making hits last year to illustrate what this transmission has been through in the last year or so.

My point is, the clutches are not near as important as the use of very well balanced hydraulics.

The idea of a thin steel not being able to dissipate heat is very relative to the application, the build, the combination of apply pressure, shift timing and accumulation. Point is, if the clutch slips/hydroplanes/or bounces when it applies then yeah a thin steel probably is not a good idea.

I didn't read anywhere that Richard or his builder were going to "turn up the pressure control solenoid". Maybe you can show me where that was discussed, I probably overlooked that part. i don't advocate that move, and I don't thing Richard or Blake do either. The converter is fresh, and yes the line pressure is ridiculously low. But, I think that's what you were trying to say in your comments.

Did you get a chance to read my post where I recapped the series of events that led us to removing the transmission to have it repaired? It's post #25 in this thread.

Thanks for speaking up!

g

 

It's a pleasure to meet you also Gilbert. It was not my intention to offend your ability as a builder. Its obvious you build a fine transmission, your reputation is impeccable. I will be the first person to admit that we all can learn from each other, even from the most novice of technicians. I should have been more specific about the alto products. I have have bad experiences with ther power packs, specifically for the 3-4 clutches in the 4L60E application.The power packs that have friction material on one side and steel on the other, like the third clutches in a 4T65E in my opinion are not what they are cracked up to be. I have used there high energy clutches and the wide bands, I prefer the carbon one. The Alto red frictions obviously are tried and proven, but in my opinion do not last as long in daily drivers as the high energy. Which as you mentioned is all personal preference. As for the low pressure concern maybe Atomic should consider a sonnax AFL valve kit #34200-16k. Also need to address the pump and a new presuure control solenoid. I also like to use sonnax end plugs that have o rings on them they have various sizes for the 4L80E as well as there reverse boost valve with o rings. I have built a lot of GM transmissions in the past 20 plus years and gladly offer my experiences with the members of this forum. I hope we all can learn by sharing our experiences after all thats what its all about. If you beat on **** it brakes, its not a matter of if, its when. Again it was not my intention to offend.

 

Thanks for saying so, but I do not get offended easy at all. And surely didn't take your remarks as offending! I love this stuff man!

If it was easy every one would be able to do it and we wouldn't get to have these discussions. There are some nice pieces in this transmission. Something changed at some point which modified the pressures and because of the big power to weight the clutches are showing some stress.

Feel free to give me a shout any time you like!

g

 

This thread is generating some good info, I like it.