I dont think youre right... if the air just FELT cool then my blower and intake tube would not BE cool after meth sprays. It doesnt just feel like cold air because of liquid, it IS colder intake charge.
No matter how cold the air FEELS when standing behind the fan after being squirted by a water bottle I dont think your skin would be cold to the touch... that takes an actual temp change.

My Meth doesnt puddle. I have the kit working properly. It sprays at a high enough pressure from the start that it amoizes very quickly, and at a high enough boost level that the engine sucks it all in not allowing it to puddle. I heve checked countless times to make sure that this was not happening. Now if I turn down the gain **** to a point where the pump pressure isnt as high then i could start to see some pooling.

You said it yourself... your intake tube is post boost source. You will most definitely not have an issue with puddling.

The main thing to remember here is that the temp of your intake manifold has very little to no effect on your intake temps while WOT. I would rather leave the IAT timing table at a point where it can be effective, especially living in vegas where intake temps could actually approach a dangerous level under moderate throttle(no meth) and cause ping, and have the meth hit the IAT sensor to tell the computer that everything is OK an no need to pull timing. To each his own though.

I'd bet $1000 that if you spray in your intake tube your intake manifold will also feel cooler to the touch after a hard run.

 

Maybe that is my issue then. In my eyes, it doesn't evaporate instantly. I see it taking either a hot surface to touch and evaporate or a good amount of intake tubing to automize. I'll be running two big nozzles so for my particualr set up, it will take longer downstream to automize completely. Do you have any idea how fast the air is moving through the intake tube with our turbo set ups?

I see where you are coming from and like this disscusion. What size nozzle are you running in the intake tube? Do you think the meth is completely evaporated fore it enters the blower on your set up?

 

Ah... see now youre getting to one of my biggest questions. One of my biggest concerns really. I am yet to get answers to this... but I'm digging. One of my concerns, and why I run 100% meth, is that i did not want water to in effect bead blast the coating off the blower rotors because it does not atomize or evaporate as well. That is also why I put my nozzle as far away from my blower as possible. The air is moving so god damn fast that an extra 6" probably wont matter, but it made me feel better. Meth has an extremely low flash and boiling point, meaning that air temps can be very low for it to evaporate, especially when sprayed as fine as we are. From what I have seen that is somewhere in the ballpark of 52-54* F, and boil as low as 60* compared to water at 212* (water has no flash point as it is not flamable).

Living in New England I will without question see inlet IAT's lower than that... meaning that I will start to not see the Meth Evap as well and it will hit the blower as an extremely fine liquid. Will this pose a problem for me? Will my meth kit become less effective? Will it be harder on the blower? Is meth more effective at higher temps? I'm not sure.

In a perfect world I could do a combination. I would have a direct spray kit using a Phenolic spacer much like Ray has already released for nitrous (he is working on it... and I'm patiently waiting). I would still like to run meth in my intake tube to cool the blower, but I get nervous running so much through the blower as my ambient temps start to drop. I will have 1/4 mile runs this fall where ambient temps are well into the 40's. Having both spray locations set up as you would a dual nozzle would allow for a single 5-7 GPH in my intake as opposed to the single 15 I have now and 8 or 12 (do they make 1.5GPH nozzles?) as a direct port.

In short... no I dont think it is completely evaporated, but I think in the summer or on hot days its a hell of a lot closer than it will be as things cool off.

 

You might want to read this: https://www.performancetrucks.net/fo...w-test-525874/

Nozzle pressure is highly depenant on your nozzle size. With mine with an alky control pump, 1x14ghp was 205psi max. 2x14 was 155psi max, and 3x14 was 115psi max. Keep in mind you need to subrtract boost pressure from this number if its after the compressor, just like injectors.

Your solenoid is not needed unless your feed lines are 15ft long like that other video, heres mine:
I would not put it in the intake. Reason being it is not needed, will not help you, and will just add unneeded complication.

As far as how it works, it absorbs heat from the air. This process takes time, depending on the temperature difference of the fluid and of the surround air. The bigger the temp difference the less time it takes. Its an exponential function; very fast at first when the temperatures are far apart then extremely slow when the temperatures are close to one another.

A 100% ve efficient 360cubic inch engine will move 685cfm at 6500rpm. If your intake pipe is 3" diameter, that is 7.1in^2 or 0.049ft^2. So to move 685ft^3/min through a 3" pipe it needs to move 685/.049=13,980ft/min or 159 miles per hour. Thats fast. Actual VE is probably 85% or so under boost so it would be more like 582cfm which is 135mph. 135mph is 198ft/s. So if from your meth nozzle to the intake valve is 6ft, that will take 6/198=0.03 seconds. Lets say its only 2 feet if the nozzle is by the throttle body, thats 2/198=0.01 seconds. Is all your work really worth letting the meth hang out for 0.02 less seconds? I would personally say no.

The pressure expansion doesnt work on meth because it is a liquid, not a gas. Phase changing is true when a gas expands rapidly, but the meth is not compressed it is pressurized, there is a difference. The atomization increases surface area which greatly increases heat transfer rate. It may seem a bit obvious by this point that it doesnt have a lot of time to hang out in the intake. It does absorb a lot of heat, but it also increases the octane of the fuel going into the cylinder, which is its main advantage.

I have my IAT sensor at the back of the intake and the meth nozzles near the intercooler. Under boost my IAT will drop slightly at first, then rise about 10 degrees over the starting point by the end of the 1/8th. This is what I would expect to see as the air entering the intake is hot and will continue to heat up the longer you are in it.

Oh and I run 2x14gph nozzles with a single -4 feed from the pump split to 2 -4 lines to each nozzle.

 

This is the math I've been waiting for. Just didn't know all the numbers to compute it. Thanks man!!


What you just said here would be in favor of plumbing my nozzles in the intake. Is plumbing them in the intake tubing worth the extra 0.02 seconds it will take to the cylinder.. And you said no. Its the same amount of work plumbing the nozzles in the intake vs in the charge pipe. So again, back to the only downside I see in putting the nozzles in the intake: Will each cylinder get equal distribution?... I really don't see why it wouldn't but obviously you guys know something I don't.

 

If I were to spray pre IAT, this is how I would do it. I would spray literally as far away from the IAT sensor, post intercooler, as I could. Let the meth automize and evaporate before it hits the IAT. The readings that you get on your IAT sensor looks to be exactly as they should. There are a bunch of guys that spray right before the IAT sensor in the charge pipe and brag about how the "IAT" drops even below ambiant. I just don't buy it. Its not a true air temp reading cause the sensor is wet... Atomic, I would set my system up just like yours if I had the IAT sensor in the intake.

So with your 2x14gph nozzles, do you think you would see an increase in spray from your nozzles if you ran -6 from the pump, Y'd to two -4 lines to each nozzle, or is that overkill?

 

If you look in that spreadsheet I calcualted the fuel flow from the nozzles in terns of lb/hr (and gal/hr) and it turns out to be around 200 with 2x14gph nozzles at "4" and 30 psi of intake boost. Thats not insignificant. If you have 80lb/hr injectors as your main fueling and a meth setup like mine that, that means 200/(8x80)*100=31% of your total fuel flow is from the meth (in terms of volume).

How much meth do you really want to spray like this? Lets say your truck needs about 15 seconds of meth (spool, staging, running, etc.) using 2 x14gph nozzles. So at 25psi of boost with 2x14gph nozzles it outputs roughly 25GPH. That is 0.0069gal/s. So in 30 seconds you use 0.207 gallons. Im guessing the tank is 1.25 gallons, so at that rate youll be out of meth after 12 runs of 15 seconds or 180 seconds of use.

With my pump maxed out it will spray about 39GPH with 3x14gph nozzles at 30psi of boost. So thats 0.0108 gal/s so it will empty that 1.25 gallons in about 116 seconds or 8 runs of 15 seconds. Thinking about it that actually sounds too big for the windshield resovoir, but you get the point.

You will have to worry about distribution if you use the nozzles as a main source of fueling (>10% in my mind). Just like the TBI systems. Direct port spray nozzles are the best, but you already identified the problems with that. The ultimate solution is to use meth as the main fuel

 

I remember reading that thread. Cool results. You don't think the nozzles would have been in a better position if you ran -6 before you teed off to -4 the nozzles?

 

Probably not. The pump is probably not big enough to need -6 line. -4 works fine for me and spray a lot more meth than most people.

 

Okay good to know. I defiantly won't be spraying any more than dual 14's. Can't wait to get all my stuff and figure out how I will plumb it. Still leaning toward injecting right after the tb.