Vortec 350 wont start
Dec 29, 2006 | 09:11 PM
#13
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OK. I just got finished changing the fuel pump (walbro) and sending unit assembly (why not) mine was acting up anyway. Pump is loud and strong and it still wont start. I had already bought the pump previously so this was no big expense. I got the sender for $97.00 including shipping, dealer wanted $315.00. I will check the distributor next.
Dec 30, 2006 | 02:53 AM
#15
Originally Posted by JohnnyStorm
OK. I just got finished changing the fuel pump... and it still wont start...
I would have put down money that was going to be the end of it.
There are three other scenarios I've seen with these engines that are worth looking into at this point.
1. Distributor cap - the "crab cap" can experience a very rare internal failure where the center electrode shorts and arcs out internally to the #3 terminal. If this condition exists it will not be visible from the inside or the outside because it will be inside the plastic. (Looking at the top of the cap you can see where the #3 crosses over very close to the center electrode.)
http://bertok.us/pics/03dec/distgear.jpg
2. Distributor Gear - Vortec 350's have a tendency to eat the distributor gear. This is caused by the steel cam shaft against the cast iron distributor gear where there is very little lubrication.
3. Fuel Pressure Regulator - the FPR is inside the intake manifold attached to the central injection unit. These have been known to fail and discharge fuel through their vacuum reference port. The raw fuel floods out the two passenger side rear cylinders while starving the rest. Fuel pressure will appear to be low with a regulator failed in this way.
All three of those circumstances are a lot more rare than fuel pump failure.
Last edited by James B.; Dec 30, 2006 at 03:13 AM.
Dec 30, 2006 | 11:20 AM
#16
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Originally Posted by James B.
Sorry man,
I would have put down money that was going to be the end of it.
There are three other scenarios I've seen with these engines that are worth looking into at this point.
1. Distributor cap - the "crab cap" can experience a very rare internal failure where the center electrode shorts and arcs out internally to the #3 terminal. If this condition exists it will not be visible from the inside or the outside because it will be inside the plastic. (Looking at the top of the cap you can see where the #3 crosses over very close to the center electrode.)
http://bertok.us/pics/03dec/distgear.jpg
2. Distributor Gear - Vortec 350's have a tendency to eat the distributor gear. This is caused by the steel cam shaft against the cast iron distributor gear where there is very little lubrication.
3. Fuel Pressure Regulator - the FPR is inside the intake manifold attached to the central injection unit. These have been known to fail and discharge fuel through their vacuum reference port. The raw fuel floods out the two passenger side rear cylinders while starving the rest. Fuel pressure will appear to be low with a regulator failed in this way.
All three of those circumstances are a lot more rare than fuel pump failure.
I would have put down money that was going to be the end of it.
There are three other scenarios I've seen with these engines that are worth looking into at this point.
1. Distributor cap - the "crab cap" can experience a very rare internal failure where the center electrode shorts and arcs out internally to the #3 terminal. If this condition exists it will not be visible from the inside or the outside because it will be inside the plastic. (Looking at the top of the cap you can see where the #3 crosses over very close to the center electrode.)
http://bertok.us/pics/03dec/distgear.jpg
2. Distributor Gear - Vortec 350's have a tendency to eat the distributor gear. This is caused by the steel cam shaft against the cast iron distributor gear where there is very little lubrication.
3. Fuel Pressure Regulator - the FPR is inside the intake manifold attached to the central injection unit. These have been known to fail and discharge fuel through their vacuum reference port. The raw fuel floods out the two passenger side rear cylinders while starving the rest. Fuel pressure will appear to be low with a regulator failed in this way.
All three of those circumstances are a lot more rare than fuel pump failure.
Now if I "jumped timing" what is the fix for that?
And James B. Thanks for all the help. I would have replaced the fuel pump eventually anyway.
Dec 30, 2006 | 12:12 PM
#17
There are two ways timing can be screwed up.
Jumping timing is caused by excessive slack in the timing chain. The chain skips and you end up with retarded cam and spark timing. On some engines this can cause the pistons to come into contact with the valves since they end up being open when they should not be. The Vortec 350 IS an interence engine. (Some people will say it's not because the pistons have valve relief pockets, but I know for a fact that they will hit.)
I have NEVER in my travels seen a Vortec 350 jump timing, including those with 400k on the original timing chain.
The other problem is related to the distributor gear. Checking that requires pulling the distributor. Before doing that make sure the mark on the dampener is lined up with the mark on the timing cover. It's hard to see this mark because the accessory backet on the driver side is in the way of viewing it. Witht he Top Dead Center mark lined up the rotor in the distributor should be pointing at either the cylinder #1 or the #5 electrode. Anywhere else and you can be sure that something mechanical is wrong.
Jumping timing is caused by excessive slack in the timing chain. The chain skips and you end up with retarded cam and spark timing. On some engines this can cause the pistons to come into contact with the valves since they end up being open when they should not be. The Vortec 350 IS an interence engine. (Some people will say it's not because the pistons have valve relief pockets, but I know for a fact that they will hit.)
I have NEVER in my travels seen a Vortec 350 jump timing, including those with 400k on the original timing chain.
The other problem is related to the distributor gear. Checking that requires pulling the distributor. Before doing that make sure the mark on the dampener is lined up with the mark on the timing cover. It's hard to see this mark because the accessory backet on the driver side is in the way of viewing it. Witht he Top Dead Center mark lined up the rotor in the distributor should be pointing at either the cylinder #1 or the #5 electrode. Anywhere else and you can be sure that something mechanical is wrong.
Dec 30, 2006 | 01:04 PM
#18
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well it could also be crank sensor. fuel press needs to be over are at 55lbs
i would spray carb cleaner in the intake before changeing anything but i bet it is the dis, cap and rotor
i would spray carb cleaner in the intake before changeing anything but i bet it is the dis, cap and rotor
Dec 30, 2006 | 04:30 PM
#19
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It is fixed now!!
Originally Posted by James B.
Sorry man,
I would have put down money that was going to be the end of it.
There are three other scenarios I've seen with these engines that are worth looking into at this point.
1. Distributor cap - the "crab cap" can experience a very rare internal failure where the center electrode shorts and arcs out internally to the #3 terminal. If this condition exists it will not be visible from the inside or the outside because it will be inside the plastic. (Looking at the top of the cap you can see where the #3 crosses over very close to the center electrode.)
http://bertok.us/pics/03dec/distgear.jpg
2. Distributor Gear - Vortec 350's have a tendency to eat the distributor gear. This is caused by the steel cam shaft against the cast iron distributor gear where there is very little lubrication.
3. Fuel Pressure Regulator - the FPR is inside the intake manifold attached to the central injection unit. These have been known to fail and discharge fuel through their vacuum reference port. The raw fuel floods out the two passenger side rear cylinders while starving the rest. Fuel pressure will appear to be low with a regulator failed in this way.
All three of those circumstances are a lot more rare than fuel pump failure.
I would have put down money that was going to be the end of it.
There are three other scenarios I've seen with these engines that are worth looking into at this point.
1. Distributor cap - the "crab cap" can experience a very rare internal failure where the center electrode shorts and arcs out internally to the #3 terminal. If this condition exists it will not be visible from the inside or the outside because it will be inside the plastic. (Looking at the top of the cap you can see where the #3 crosses over very close to the center electrode.)
http://bertok.us/pics/03dec/distgear.jpg
2. Distributor Gear - Vortec 350's have a tendency to eat the distributor gear. This is caused by the steel cam shaft against the cast iron distributor gear where there is very little lubrication.
3. Fuel Pressure Regulator - the FPR is inside the intake manifold attached to the central injection unit. These have been known to fail and discharge fuel through their vacuum reference port. The raw fuel floods out the two passenger side rear cylinders while starving the rest. Fuel pressure will appear to be low with a regulator failed in this way.
All three of those circumstances are a lot more rare than fuel pump failure.
First I pulled all the plugs and cleaned them up, checked gap, and blew them out real well with LP air. Then I changed the Rotor and Cap and they looked like ***. The center electrode in the cap fell out and I had a broken screw in the distributor base. I got that out with a vise grip. I had to rotate the distributor clockwise to get the second screw out as it was hitting the plastic intake manifold (I have a VMax Intake spacer). My fuel line to the spider was resting on the #1 plug wire at the cap (fixed). I'm thinking my ignition box might be causing the cap failure with all the extra juice going thru it, but this might be fantasy.
Anyway, what a trip this was and now hopefully this will help someone else.
Thanks to all who contributed,
Bill
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