adriver

iTrader: (1)

I'm about to tell you as detailed as I can, the experience I just had buying a set of Flowtech "304 SS" ceramic coated headers for NBS AND NNBS 6.0, #31142FLT. If you have bought these headers, you did not get what you paid for. The rest of this is nearly verbatim from the conversation I had with Holley's Ebay representative. You can skip ahead to the (SUMMARY in Post #2)

I ordered this set of Flowtech 31142FLT headers because I wanted a set of 304 stainless steel headers for my pickup, and thought I found a good deal from a quality name. On Nov 20, 2021 I bought these as a “scratch and dent” item through an Ebay auction from someone using the name HolleyPerformance and using the Holley logo. The listing’s return policy states “Buyer pays return shipping”. I was guessing there would be a small mark or two in the coating. If there was some major problem, I could always return them and be out the shipping charges.

The headers arrived on Nov 24th. I opened and inspected them, and found this:



I was immediately suspicious knowing 304 stainless steel should not rust like this, nor should it be magnetic. I checked with a fridge magnet, and the entire flange and every part of the tubing is magnetic. I don’t believe there is any chance these are 304 Stainless steel.

Right away, I requested a return through Ebay, and asked for Holleyperformance to refund, and (against the listing) asked them to pay for return shipping, based on that these headers are not 304 stainless steel. This is not about them being scratched or blemished with rust, this is about me not getting the product that I ordered.

The initial response from Holleyperformance (11/29/2021 4:55 PM) :

holleyperformance sent you a message about your request:


(Right away, I’m thinking this person doesn’t even know these are offered in two different options. Clearly this is where the mix up happened).


My response (11/29/2021 7:14 PM ):

I see that

3114 2 FLT are ceramic coated 304 Stainless steel,
3114 3 FLT are ceramic coated mild steel.

I do think this is somehow an honest mistake. Whether someone put the wrong sticker on the box, or listed it with the wrong number, I really have no clue how the process works.

The listing part number is for 304SS, the box is for 304SS, but the headers inside the box aren’t that.



Wednesday (12/1/2021 1:46 PM) I received this reply:



I was about to respond to what I am certain is your ebay representative with; “The part number was listed in the title and the body of the listing. Then I went and looked at the item’s webpage, AND BETWEEN LAST WEEK, AND THIS PERSON’S RESPONSE, HOLLEY’S WEBSITE FOR THIS ITEM’S TITLE AND DESCRIPTION HAVE BEEN CHANGED TO REMOVE “304 SS”. Here is the old listing from when I purchased this.



--- The item’s page on Holley has now been changed to remove 304 Stainless steel from the title’s description and from the SPECS information. Here is the current page.




(FROM HERE ON, AFTER THIS HAPPENNED I HAVE STOPPED RESPONDING TO THE EBAY ACCOUNT. THIS NEXT PART WAS TO HOLLEY DIRECTLY).

At this point, I believe this person has been intentionally deceptive. I don’t believe this was done with Holley’s direction, but I do believe this person just committed fraud for Holley’s benefit.

The product’s listing still includes 304 stainless steel for this part number on; Summit racing, Jegs, Carid, Auto Anything. I’m certain if someone cares enough to know, they can see when the item’s webpage was last edited if they wanted to know how long before this last response was sent at (12/1/2021 1:46 PM)

All I wanted was a refund for not getting the product I ordered. I believe this person has put in extra effort to try to cheat me, and I will be putting forth further effort myself. I’m starting with trying to inform Holley management, because I believe this deceit came from one person, and not the company as a whole, but my other options are:

• To try to get the 20 yr old, 50K + rating ebay account reported as fraud due to counterfeit or misrepresentation
• Filing a complaint with the FTC
• Responding to each and every one of the 100+ emails, I get from more than twenty years of being on automotive forums, that will show up on my birthday (which is coming up this month, so I will see them again soon).

I hope those don’t sound like anything more, than the only other options I can come up with. I am absolutely not trying to bad mouth YOUR COMPANY at this point.

Thank you for your time, and hoping to hear from you soon.

HOLLEY THE COMPANY'S RESPONSE,

I’m a supervisor in the Holley Technical Department. I understand your frustration and apologize for the struggle you’ve had with this issue. I have escalated the issue up to product management to make sure our language on mild steel versus stainless is aligned with the labelling and advertising on the product. Most major sites like Summit, Jegs, etc, just pull their feed on part descriptions from us and it refreshes only every 24-48 hours, so you can definitely see some differential from a website change on our end to the other retailer’s descriptions. This header part number has always been coated mild steel and should have been presented as such. The two part numbers you furnished are the same but have different primary tube diameters. What we should have on listings, product pages, and boxes is 31142FLT are ceramic coated mild steel 1 ¾” primary tube, 31143FLT are ceramic coated mild steel 1 7/8” primary tube.

I got in touch with my eBay team as well and they have indicated eBay is sending you a return label to facilitate the return and cover the cost. Let me know if that does not come through, I can send you one. Flowtech shorty headers that are coated are ALL mild steel so it’s likely this has just been wrong on the website listing and box all along. There’s also a couple of folks that work the eBay conversations, it’s very possible you spoke to different people on different occasions and the last person was not aware the first person’s conversation you had this triggered a change to our product page. This is a fault on our end regardless, and I hope this hasn’t soured you from doing further business. If there’s anything more I can do please don’t hesitate to let me know.

adriver

iTrader: (1)

(SUMMARY): Holley which includes Flowtech, Hooker, and Flowmaster don't even offer a 304SS coated set of headers for any vehicle. What I was told over the phone was that they believed the part number has been incorrect the entire time. (I found reviews going back to at least 2017, it looks like this error has been since the start of this product's listing). If you ordered these at any time then you did not get 304SS shorty headers with 1 3/4 primaries, you actually received mild steel coated headers with 1 3/4 primaries. These are listed to fit the 6.0 (03-13) NBS and NNBS pickups, and denali, (I would guess that also includes escalade.

I am certain this is isolated to this part number only. I don't believe that Holley or Flowmaster did this intentionally. I know Holley and its companies are some of the biggest in automotive performance, and I'm sure most of you have had great experience. This was my only interaction with Holley, and frankly, I think they should have a job opening in their ebay team after they committed fraud by changing the item's page, and then furthering their effort to insist this was my problem. This is the only thing I have to go off. As of writing this, Holley has changed their website, and had I not thought something was fishy, I wouldn't have saved their webpages last week, before they changed them, and wouldn't have proof. They were just made aware of this problem by me this week, and they may or may not take action themselves to try to rectify this. If you bought these 31142FLT 304SS ceramic coated, Flowtech shorty headers (at what looks like any point in time up to now), you did not receive what you paid for.

Summitracing

We know it's been a minute but wanted to share we corrected the info on our site for these headers.
- SUM-31142FLT
- SUM-31143FLT

adriver, sorry to hear all the headaches you went through with Holley to arrive at this info. Unfortunately, sometimes it takes experiences like this to get the information corrected. We strive to have accurate and correct info for all parts on our site. Anytime you find inaccurate info on our site, don't hesitate to bring it to our attention! We'll gladly look into it!

Richardman1992

iTrader: (5)

I won’t speak for Holley, but in the 10 years or so that I’ve been playing with cars, I’ve never heard anything good about flowtechs, other then that they’re cheap.

adriver

iTrader: (1)

From what I read, I got the impression they were about midrange. I didn't realize until all of this, that Holley is the parent company for some of the best brand names from all over.