GM Drivetrain & Suspension Chassis | Transmission| Driveshaft | Gears/Rear End/Differential | Traction Aids

running a taller tire in the rear?

Old Aug 5, 2005 | 08:32 AM
  #11  
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My head hurts now. You should put a warning on that
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Old Aug 5, 2005 | 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by James B.
A subtle difference in tire diameter will not create problems.

You can cheat by setting up a fake rear end gear ratio but you have to manipulate everything just right so the speedometer stays correct.

For example, say you were programmed for 30" tires all the way around, have 3.42 gears, and swapped to a 28" up front and a 29" out back.

Stock this would be a total of 91929 pulses per mile with 3.42 gears and 30" tires. if you swap to 29" tires in the back the number of pulses per mile becomes 95076 pulses per mile, but that's for a 29" tire. Take that figure, make the tire diameter match whatever is on the front and then solve for the "virtual gear ratio" to make everything work.

Here's the math:

Start by finding out how many time the tire rotates in one mile:

D = Tire diameter
G = Gear Ratio
M = 5280 (feet in a mile)
P = Pulses per mile
pi = 3.14
T = Tire Revolutions per mile

T = M / ( ( D * pi ) / 12 )
so,
for 30" tire, 5280/((30*3.14)/12) = 672 revs per mile
for 29" tire, 5280/((29*3.14)/12) = 695 revs per mile
for 28" tire, 5280/((28*3.14)/12) = 720 revs per mile

The reluctor ring on the tailshaft has 40 segments meaning it pulses 40 times per revolution.

Therefore, P = G * T * 40
For the 30" tire and 3.42 gear combination mentioned above, 3.42*672*40 = 91929 Pulses per mile
For the 29" tire in the back it's 3.42*695*40 = 95076 Pulses per mile
Back to the example of 28" up front vs. 29" in the back, take the real pulses per mile figure for the rear tire and solve for the "fake" gear ratio using the "T" factor for the front tire:

G = P / 40 / T
95076/720/40 = 3.30

When programming the PCM use the pulses per mile number for the front tire and the real gear ratio. (98496 in this example) This will be off from the real number but the difference in gear ratio will correct it and ABS and traction control will function as they should.

Like any formula it gets more accurate the more decimals you choose to use for calculations and pi.

Get it?
my brain hurts
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Old Aug 5, 2005 | 09:24 AM
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but really....... sounds awsome. Super Cudos to you for fingering that out. When I buy the tires... i'll definatly be printing that reply out. ****, that's almost sticky worthy.

Last edited by LoudAzzLoStepside; Aug 5, 2005 at 09:34 AM.
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Old Aug 5, 2005 | 09:29 AM
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if i read correctly, you're saying hptuners will have this function available to tune for the pulses for the front, and i'll adjust the gear accordingly for the rear?
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Old Aug 5, 2005 | 09:35 AM
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oh wait...... you're just saying punch in the tire size..... and then punch in your "fake" gear, and everything will be gravy. I get it!!!
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Old Aug 5, 2005 | 12:20 PM
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I have been running 275/60 in the rear and 255/60 in front for 3 years and have never had a problem. I love the look of the wider tire in the rear, the only thing that sucks is you cant rotate your tires, but Im sure your back tires will not last as long as the front anyway!!!
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Old Aug 5, 2005 | 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by LoudAzzLoStepside
oh wait...... you're just saying punch in the tire size..... and then punch in your "fake" gear, and everything will be gravy. I get it!!!
Using a handheld programmer you won't be able to really take advantage of this unless the difference in tire size works out to be a gear ratio difference that lands somewhere very close to a standard GM ratio. (3.08, 3.23, 3.42, 3.73, 4.10, 4.56, etc.) The handhelds don't allow you to specify an an exact ratio - you get choices from standard GM ratios. Using a true PCM programmer and laptop computer, like LS1 Edit for example, tire size figures come down to VSS pulses per mile. GM PCMs do have a constant for gear ratio. That's why all my math is in pulses per mile not in tire size.

Just a word of caution to those of you running different sized tires without programming for them - ABS works on thresholds. It is constantly comparing front left and front right and averaging those to compare with the rear. With the tire sizes unequal that threshold margin is reduced. That will lead to overly sensitve ABS. Keep in mind that you won't notice the difference in sensitivity until ABS is working in traction-impared braking situation. The result will be reduced braking effectiveness.

Even though it SEEMS fine it isn't.

Last edited by James B.; Aug 5, 2005 at 11:26 PM.
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Old Aug 5, 2005 | 10:33 PM
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great info!

I may try that when I go to a 32.8" tall rear compared to a 32" front
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Old Aug 5, 2005 | 10:52 PM
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met a guy at the track running slicks in back and stockers in front and he said he had to pull out the abs fuse to stop horrible griniding noises when he used the brakes for the burnoiut.
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