STS- Dyno queen OR Track performer???
#71
I agree, this thread is not the normal pissing contest of "mine is the best, you are an idiot for choosing that system" drivel. Good solid chest expansion and posturing with real world experience to back things up. Zippy, thanks for asking/answering questions in a great way.
One thing to keep in mind is how a turbo builds boost and the power curve it develops compared to a supercharger, especially on a dyno. A turbo requires load or resistance in the drivetrain, not totally RPM's, to spin the compressor ( this is why a turbo does not develop much or any boost in park or neutral ). A belt driven roots or screw type SC boosts instantly ( a centrifical SC is more like a turbo boost ) and it totally dependent on RPM for power development.
I dynoed my STS right after installing it. It only made 295whp and 310 wtrq on 5psi. I did some research and found out that due to the lack of computer reprogramming and a sensitive torque management system the WG seat was removed and two holes were drilled into the WG piston. This kept the boost from coming on too strong and upsetting the computer. I plugged the holes and installed the seat, then hit 330 whp and 330 wtrq on 5psi. Still seemed low, so I asked the dyno shop to apply a stronger load resistance ( more eddy current ) to the rollers, then saw 370 whp and 410 wtrq on 5psi and the curves were much lower in the RPM band than before. The original load setting was for a race Mustang, about 2000# lighter than my truck.
So, did my truck gain 75 hp and 90 trq by the wave of a wand? No, it just showed me that the dyno and street/track are two totally different things. My main intent on using the dyno was to watch AF ratios since I did not have a wideband at the time. The butt dyno already told me I was making more power than the first actual runs, and my 1/4 times reflected this too ( NA dyno runs 260 whp and 300 wtrq ).
I have also been in contact with other Dodge owners who installed a Vortech SC kit. We were pretty close in gains up to 6psi and then the SC started to drop behind. The parasitic losses started to catch up and they kinda stopped seeing power increases at 8psi where the turbos kept on climbing. Of course by this time I had effectively lunched my pistons, and a trip to sea level in TX finished them and some rings off for good.
God I rambled! Anyway, just keep in mind how the different induction system make power and use the best one for your application! Peace.
One thing to keep in mind is how a turbo builds boost and the power curve it develops compared to a supercharger, especially on a dyno. A turbo requires load or resistance in the drivetrain, not totally RPM's, to spin the compressor ( this is why a turbo does not develop much or any boost in park or neutral ). A belt driven roots or screw type SC boosts instantly ( a centrifical SC is more like a turbo boost ) and it totally dependent on RPM for power development.
I dynoed my STS right after installing it. It only made 295whp and 310 wtrq on 5psi. I did some research and found out that due to the lack of computer reprogramming and a sensitive torque management system the WG seat was removed and two holes were drilled into the WG piston. This kept the boost from coming on too strong and upsetting the computer. I plugged the holes and installed the seat, then hit 330 whp and 330 wtrq on 5psi. Still seemed low, so I asked the dyno shop to apply a stronger load resistance ( more eddy current ) to the rollers, then saw 370 whp and 410 wtrq on 5psi and the curves were much lower in the RPM band than before. The original load setting was for a race Mustang, about 2000# lighter than my truck.
So, did my truck gain 75 hp and 90 trq by the wave of a wand? No, it just showed me that the dyno and street/track are two totally different things. My main intent on using the dyno was to watch AF ratios since I did not have a wideband at the time. The butt dyno already told me I was making more power than the first actual runs, and my 1/4 times reflected this too ( NA dyno runs 260 whp and 300 wtrq ).
I have also been in contact with other Dodge owners who installed a Vortech SC kit. We were pretty close in gains up to 6psi and then the SC started to drop behind. The parasitic losses started to catch up and they kinda stopped seeing power increases at 8psi where the turbos kept on climbing. Of course by this time I had effectively lunched my pistons, and a trip to sea level in TX finished them and some rings off for good.
God I rambled! Anyway, just keep in mind how the different induction system make power and use the best one for your application! Peace.
#72
Originally Posted by ktmrider
A turbo requires load or resistance in the drivetrain, not totally RPM's, to spin the compressor ( this is why a turbo does not develop much or any boost in park or neutral ). A belt driven roots or screw type SC boosts instantly ( a centrifical SC is more like a turbo boost ) and it totally dependent on RPM for power development
#73
if you'd have checked your truck on the wideband during those runs you'd have likely found a big difference in the a/f ratio between the first run and the last. judging by the difference in the numbers i also assume you were doing the runs with the tc unlocked.
#74
Its funny, the dyno causes more arguments than satisfied answers. If everyone would use a dyno for what it is; a measureing GAUGE, then the world will be a happier place. Run a baseline, run a test with the new mods and measure your gain....end of story. Who really gives a **** about dyno numbers, take it to the track. I think people pay way too much attention to the dyno, there are NEVER any two that are the same......and I have NEVER seen anyone post numbers that have not been picked apart. Use it for the tool it is and go to the track.
Last edited by BlownChevy; Jan 2, 2006 at 11:42 AM.
#75
Originally Posted by BlownChevy
Its funny, the dyno causes more arguments than satisfied answers. If everyone would use a dyno for what it is; a measureing GAUGE, then the world will be a happier place. Run a baseline, run a test with the new mods and measure your gain....end of story. Who really gives a **** about dyno numbers, take it to the track. I think people pay way too much attention to the dyno, there are NEVER any two that are the same......and I have NEVER seen anyone post numbers that have not been picked apart. Use it for the tool it is and go to the track.

We don't race dynos here gentlemen. If you want to do that, go buy a Supra! WAY too many variables play into dyno numbers. More variables on different dyno's then on different tracks.
#76
Ktmrider - good info.
The throttle position not being required to be wot in neutral to achieve red line will restrict boost obviously with the radix. Not sure if you were really asking a question or trying to stir the pot but I thought I'd answer anyway. Sorry for the comment earlier. It just seemed like things weren't getting anywhere. Now they are! **** away gentlemen!
Originally Posted by moregrip
so if one is in neutral and rev's thier radix the boost will rise corresponding to rpm?
#77
Originally Posted by mjhoward
The throttle position not being required to be wot in neutral to achieve red line will restrict boost obviously with the radix
#79
I think that a time slip consist of the actions of the car/truck, Driver, track conditions, and weather. These are things you could pick at to. Oh! it was 90 degrees out, that is why I only ran a 15.4. Or I couldn't hook up. Dude, the track is all messed up! Some people can say these are excuses, some people would say it is valid. Or you may get some guy saying," no wonder why he is running so fast look at how much boost he is running". Or He is spraying. He used a slick. All I am trying to say is, it is hard to judge a power adder by just a time slip or a dyno. There are alot of variables to concider. Hater's come in every form. If you don't want to give someone prop's then you will find a reason not too. I think quicksilverado's times are very respectable and should put any cons to rest, about the ability to be fast with the sts. But no it does not! Why? Because somebody will say Oh, That is just one truck. Or I can count on one hand how many trucks ran a good time. My question is when does it stop? I will be going to the track most likly this month. Lets say I run a good time, I am still only one truck, and still will be counted on one hand. By the way I pm Zippy and we are not taking any of this offensive.







