MP122 - What Compression?
Aug 5, 2008 | 10:42 AM
#32
I never move the IAT sensor from the MagnaCharger location and do not recommend ever moving it.
Aug 5, 2008 | 11:21 AM
#33
I guess the prob all along is that the motor starts knockin when we crank up the boost...and thats heat building up. Aside from compression being too low, and causing the blower to work too hard, what else can cause heat that we can look at?
1. IC is working and has been checked and rechecked for flow and air bubbles - and I'll be going to the CTSV to see if that helps;
2. E-FAns - all fine...actually repositioned other coolers away to eliminate parasitic heat transfer and put in the 160* stat;
3. Rad - had it acid washed and checked for flow/bubbles...shud I go to a bigger/better rad and higher flow water pump? Maybe, but the stock system shud be fina according to a few specialists I've spoken with;
4. Cam - changed from my original 214/218 on 114 to 222/228 on 115 to eliminate the overlap and that really helped drop heat and improve power;
5. Exhaust - can't be any higher flow, but I guess I cud ceramic coat the headers;
6. Heads - Allpro 236/66, Pistons - Diamond 4.005/1.162comp/-11 vol, Rods - eagle stock stroke, crank - Eagle stock grind, pushrods stock length, rockers - comp pro-mag 1.75:1, springs - Patriot Gold....ALL CHECKED AND DBL CHECKED, CROSS HATCH ALL GOOD.
7. pushing 100% meth above 4.5lbs boost - so not too aggressive.
R/
1. IC is working and has been checked and rechecked for flow and air bubbles - and I'll be going to the CTSV to see if that helps;
2. E-FAns - all fine...actually repositioned other coolers away to eliminate parasitic heat transfer and put in the 160* stat;
3. Rad - had it acid washed and checked for flow/bubbles...shud I go to a bigger/better rad and higher flow water pump? Maybe, but the stock system shud be fina according to a few specialists I've spoken with;
4. Cam - changed from my original 214/218 on 114 to 222/228 on 115 to eliminate the overlap and that really helped drop heat and improve power;
5. Exhaust - can't be any higher flow, but I guess I cud ceramic coat the headers;
6. Heads - Allpro 236/66, Pistons - Diamond 4.005/1.162comp/-11 vol, Rods - eagle stock stroke, crank - Eagle stock grind, pushrods stock length, rockers - comp pro-mag 1.75:1, springs - Patriot Gold....ALL CHECKED AND DBL CHECKED, CROSS HATCH ALL GOOD.
7. pushing 100% meth above 4.5lbs boost - so not too aggressive.
R/
Aug 5, 2008 | 11:46 AM
#34
You are obviously pro turbo and if that is what you are good at then that is fine. Your dislike to make power with another type of forced induction does not make that product bad. It just means you are better with Turbo's right?
I stand by my statement that I have never seen temps as you have told everyone you are seeing in his setup. I have tuned lots of the MagnaCharger setups at everything from moderate boost levels to 15 psi. There are alot of us making between 10-15 psi with 112HH's and 122HH's right now.
Where is your IAT pulled at on your Turbo setup? The intake tubing at the MAF or even a farther position from the engine right! Pull an IAT temp from a position similar to the MagnaCharger and you will also see similar temps.
The position that the IAT is pulled on the MagnaCharger adds in a safety factor for OE applications by reading the temp of the air right outside the #8 cylinder. This ensures that one of the hottest points is used to determine IAT Timing Retard.
If in your tune you retard the idle and off idle timing too much the temps will rise on any engine. I understand that this spike in temps at this area for a turbo actually enhance the buildup of exhaust temp and velocity to create boost.
Every different type of forced induction has its place in the aftermarket. Build boost and enjoy the route you decide, there is no reason to bash another that you don't like.
I stand by my statement that I have never seen temps as you have told everyone you are seeing in his setup. I have tuned lots of the MagnaCharger setups at everything from moderate boost levels to 15 psi. There are alot of us making between 10-15 psi with 112HH's and 122HH's right now.
Where is your IAT pulled at on your Turbo setup? The intake tubing at the MAF or even a farther position from the engine right! Pull an IAT temp from a position similar to the MagnaCharger and you will also see similar temps.
The position that the IAT is pulled on the MagnaCharger adds in a safety factor for OE applications by reading the temp of the air right outside the #8 cylinder. This ensures that one of the hottest points is used to determine IAT Timing Retard.
If in your tune you retard the idle and off idle timing too much the temps will rise on any engine. I understand that this spike in temps at this area for a turbo actually enhance the buildup of exhaust temp and velocity to create boost.
Every different type of forced induction has its place in the aftermarket. Build boost and enjoy the route you decide, there is no reason to bash another that you don't like.
We keep high regards to inlet temp/timing on vehicles and fully know the affects of them. I really want to know why the west coast has low temps and the east coast are high. 15psi over here is easy 200degree inlet temps from the Maggie location sensor which is a simple heat transfer from the compressed air.Then that is verified by the timing by getting KR and spark knock.
Yes, a Turbo or centrifical blower would put out the same high temp but they run A/A intercoolers which cut a ton of heat out.Then we run Meth just like the Maggies and see inlet temps drop dramaticly.2 days ago we dyno'd a 402ci with F1-c procharger (16lbs)on 93 and meth. Inlet temp started at 120 degree's and the end of the run was 65 degree's.
.
Maybe we are all overlooking a simple problem? Maybe the best thing is to send the blower back to be looked at?
Last edited by trever1t; Aug 5, 2008 at 03:09 PM.
Aug 5, 2008 | 11:53 AM
#35
Aug 5, 2008 | 12:04 PM
#36
Aug 5, 2008 | 02:39 PM
#38
TECH Veteran
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,534
Likes: 3
From: Las Vegas, NV
Trever1t, I'm curious if you have logged yours in a quarter mile pass with the 3.0" pulley. At your level you're making enough boost, but not really spinning the blower fast enough to have much of an issue with the high IAT's. With your 3.0" pulley you'll should be just stepping into 150º or so at the very high end of a run at the most. I have seen a few posts lately complaining of the high IAT's from the 122's with pulley sizes of 2.8" and smaller (or bigger crank pullies) and the great responses I see are no way... I've personally seen it many times. I'd like to believe something else. Does anyone have a log from a 0-100+mph run where their IAT's are less than 150º when spun up? I don't mean a dyno log, an actual track or street log. Maybe we can all learn something from that person who does that.
Aug 5, 2008 | 03:06 PM
#39
Relocated to the (blower base) manifold 
Zippy, no logs from the track yet but a few pulls from a stop to 100 and a few from 60-120. I will have some 1/4 logs on the 16th hopefully. I do have that huge heat exchanger which I believe is helping, we will see for sure soon enough.
dhpro, take Brian's advise and send the blower in for a check up.
Zippy, no logs from the track yet but a few pulls from a stop to 100 and a few from 60-120. I will have some 1/4 logs on the 16th hopefully. I do have that huge heat exchanger which I believe is helping, we will see for sure soon enough.
dhpro, take Brian's advise and send the blower in for a check up.
Last edited by trever1t; Aug 5, 2008 at 03:25 PM.
Aug 5, 2008 | 05:28 PM
#40
Trever1t, I'm curious if you have logged yours in a quarter mile pass with the 3.0" pulley. At your level you're making enough boost, but not really spinning the blower fast enough to have much of an issue with the high IAT's. With your 3.0" pulley you'll should be just stepping into 150º or so at the very high end of a run at the most. I have seen a few posts lately complaining of the high IAT's from the 122's with pulley sizes of 2.8" and smaller (or bigger crank pullies) and the great responses I see are no way... I've personally seen it many times. I'd like to believe something else. Does anyone have a log from a 0-100+mph run where their IAT's are less than 150º when spun up? I don't mean a dyno log, an actual track or street log. Maybe we can all learn something from that person who does that.
R