FI Technical Discussuion to End All! 2nd try :)
#11
I agree with hellbents10. It is up to what you want to do. There is a place for every type of FI. PERSONALLY I feel that turbos are supirior to superchargers in general. I have found through PERSONAL experiance and obsrvations that they do make more power and make it more efficently. I found that when I ran a supercharger, the IAT's were very high. Boost was there when ever I wanted it(even some times when I didnt want it
). When it was time to build a new engine I looked at my options and it look to me and the builder that the supercharger would become restrictive in the long run. The turbo would not become restrictive, and if it did I could easily switch the housing itself to solve this problem.
). When it was time to build a new engine I looked at my options and it look to me and the builder that the supercharger would become restrictive in the long run. The turbo would not become restrictive, and if it did I could easily switch the housing itself to solve this problem.
#12
Originally Posted by 8ALTNG
I agree with hellbents10. It is up to what you want to do. There is a place for every type of FI. PERSONALLY I feel that turbos are supirior to superchargers in general. I have found through PERSONAL experiance and obsrvations that they do make more power and make it more efficently. I found that when I ran a supercharger, the IAT's were very high. Boost was there when ever I wanted it(even some times when I didnt want it
). When it was time to build a new engine I looked at my options and it look to me and the builder that the supercharger would become restrictive in the long run. The turbo would not become restrictive, and if it did I could easily switch the housing itself to solve this problem.
). When it was time to build a new engine I looked at my options and it look to me and the builder that the supercharger would become restrictive in the long run. The turbo would not become restrictive, and if it did I could easily switch the housing itself to solve this problem.The only issue I have with saying the Radix would become the restriction, is that I know better, based on a conversation I had with Jerry Magnuson (the man himself). Magnuson has a certain philosophy when building their supercharger systems, and I quote “it has to be drivable”, “we will never build anything that is not drivable”. As many have mention previously, it is the best street FI system available today, and it should be, it was designed that way.
That being said, since the Radix is a draw-through system the intake tract greatly affects its performance (CrashDummy has touched on this before). A larger TB will reduce CD temps very measurably, but up until recently no real quality low speed TB was deemed up too the task. However, the new LS2 TB has proven to be a very well engineered piece (if you have followed any conversion threads, most people do not have to do any low speed/idle tuning when completed, that’s saying something)
So what does this all mean? In a nutshell people with Higher HP Radix systems will be able to tap into its full potential. Will there be a kit available? Don’t know, probably not Will I be taking advantage of this? Hell yes. When I’m done will I help those that want to do a conversion do one as well? Hell Yes
The actual blower will flow in excess of 1300cfm. I have no charts to prove this, only my word, you decide. Just remember, whitt1 is making 600+ rwhp with his setup, hmm, wonder how he did it? IMO, not many people give him the credit he is due btw
So in closing, I agree and disagree with you and can only share what I know. At the very least it will give us Radix’s guys some footing in the 600+rwhp arena. Stay tuned!
Thanks for listening
#13
Hellbents10 said it best: it all depends on a person's goals. In my case it was NOT to drag race, but to have big-block style low end torque for climbing long steep mountain passes, merging with 80+ MPH traffic on short entrance ramps, passing people who like to speed up as you try to go around them, etc. For this reason I did not go with a centrifugal, as my engine rpm's rarely go over 2500, and a centrifugal would be worthless at those speeds. OTOH, if I were to build a truck for all-out racing, then I probably would have considered a centrifugal, as the airflow is proportional to the square of the engine speed, yielding tremendous boost levels at high rpm's. As for turbo's, well, I'd have to drive one to see. I've heard they CAN produce good low-end boost, but do most commercially available setups really DO that? Also, low rpm boost that still requires the accelerator to be floored in order to get enough exhaust gas to spin the turbine is not what I would want either. Right now I'm happy with what I have and am too cheap to change it, but for my next truck, well, who knows?
#14
Originally Posted by moregrip
The only issue I have with saying the Radix would become the restriction, is that I know better, based on a conversation I had with Jerry Magnuson (the man himself). Magnuson has a certain philosophy when building their supercharger systems, and I quote “it has to be drivable”, “we will never build anything that is not drivable”. As many have mention previously, it is the best street FI system available today, and it should be, it was designed that way.
That being said, since the Radix is a draw-through system the intake tract greatly affects its performance (CrashDummy has touched on this before). A larger TB will reduce CD temps very measurably, but up until recently no real quality low speed TB was deemed up too the task. However, the new LS2 TB has proven to be a very well engineered piece (if you have followed any conversion threads, most people do not have to do any low speed/idle tuning when completed, that’s saying something)
So what does this all mean? In a nutshell people with Higher HP Radix systems will be able to tap into its full potential. Will there be a kit available? Don’t know, probably not Will I be taking advantage of this? Hell yes. When I’m done will I help those that want to do a conversion do one as well? Hell Yes
The actual blower will flow in excess of 1300cfm. I have no charts to prove this, only my word, you decide. Just remember, whitt1 is making 600+ rwhp with his setup, hmm, wonder how he did it? IMO, not many people give him the credit he is due btw
So in closing, I agree and disagree with you and can only share what I know. At the very least it will give us Radix’s guys some footing in the 600+rwhp arena. Stay tuned!
Thanks for listening
That being said, since the Radix is a draw-through system the intake tract greatly affects its performance (CrashDummy has touched on this before). A larger TB will reduce CD temps very measurably, but up until recently no real quality low speed TB was deemed up too the task. However, the new LS2 TB has proven to be a very well engineered piece (if you have followed any conversion threads, most people do not have to do any low speed/idle tuning when completed, that’s saying something)
So what does this all mean? In a nutshell people with Higher HP Radix systems will be able to tap into its full potential. Will there be a kit available? Don’t know, probably not Will I be taking advantage of this? Hell yes. When I’m done will I help those that want to do a conversion do one as well? Hell Yes
The actual blower will flow in excess of 1300cfm. I have no charts to prove this, only my word, you decide. Just remember, whitt1 is making 600+ rwhp with his setup, hmm, wonder how he did it? IMO, not many people give him the credit he is due btw
So in closing, I agree and disagree with you and can only share what I know. At the very least it will give us Radix’s guys some footing in the 600+rwhp arena. Stay tuned!
Thanks for listening
#15
Originally Posted by GMC_DUDE
I've heard they CAN produce good low-end boost, but do most commercially available setups really DO that? Also, low rpm boost that still requires the accelerator to be floored in order to get enough exhaust gas to spin the turbine is not what I would want either. Right now I'm happy with what I have and am too cheap to change it, but for my next truck, well, who knows?
#16
Originally Posted by hellbents10
It will come down to what workes better for each person. Everyone has a different goal, along with that is a tolerence to certain things that come with hp. Some people can tolerate more drivability issues then others.
For a person that want drivability something like a Radix owns. Not just Radix either....
Big torque means you can still tow and there is no need for a really high stall converter to get into the "powerband". So with this you get lower trans temps and better everyday drivability. Allthough the early boost with a 1bar sucks for mpg, going into open loop at 35-40% is not completly ideal. You sort of learn to drive like a two step if you want mpg while being stuck with 1bar tuning.
Next the centrifical. Sure it can make more power then the positive displacement blowers offered for the trucks. No I did not say more then all positive displacement blowers either. Along with this comes a power band that comes in a little higher in the rpm range though. This is because the blower is RPM dependent for boost pressure. So now you have a higher stall converter to take advantage and higher trans temps and drivability issues. Now of coarse you need or want more rpm, cause rpm equells more boost on this type of blower. Also moving the rpm higher does not affect the IAT's as much as most positive displacement blowers in this arena. So you get a lot more power with that big cam. Where a "Radix" does not need or even benifit from a huge by big cam. Now with the big cam you will want even more converter and now you have more drivabiliy issuses to go with it. Personally I can deal with it if I can blow right buy the Radix guy. But you have to decide weather or not this is what you want.
Now into turbos...arguably the ultimate power adder. It can produce gobs of torque and hp that is just totaly insane all the way through the power band. Also with the right turbo selection power can be made allmost everywere. Allthough when it comes down to really big power and super fast quarter times lag will become a issue. this is because of the larger compressor and exhaust housings needed to sopport more power. These make spool up take longer (the amount of time and rpm needed to start making boost up to full boost). Now you are back into a high stall converter that will take away from drivability. Allthough you can build one insane machine this way. Just depends on what you want. Also being able to turn up boost from in the cab can be a good or bad thing. Towing is almost always a bad idea with most of the kits I have seen as too much underhood heat will be generated.
I will edit later as I am out of time lol, just some random thoughts I thought I would post for you guys to chew on.
For a person that want drivability something like a Radix owns. Not just Radix either....
Big torque means you can still tow and there is no need for a really high stall converter to get into the "powerband". So with this you get lower trans temps and better everyday drivability. Allthough the early boost with a 1bar sucks for mpg, going into open loop at 35-40% is not completly ideal. You sort of learn to drive like a two step if you want mpg while being stuck with 1bar tuning.
Next the centrifical. Sure it can make more power then the positive displacement blowers offered for the trucks. No I did not say more then all positive displacement blowers either. Along with this comes a power band that comes in a little higher in the rpm range though. This is because the blower is RPM dependent for boost pressure. So now you have a higher stall converter to take advantage and higher trans temps and drivability issues. Now of coarse you need or want more rpm, cause rpm equells more boost on this type of blower. Also moving the rpm higher does not affect the IAT's as much as most positive displacement blowers in this arena. So you get a lot more power with that big cam. Where a "Radix" does not need or even benifit from a huge by big cam. Now with the big cam you will want even more converter and now you have more drivabiliy issuses to go with it. Personally I can deal with it if I can blow right buy the Radix guy. But you have to decide weather or not this is what you want.
Now into turbos...arguably the ultimate power adder. It can produce gobs of torque and hp that is just totaly insane all the way through the power band. Also with the right turbo selection power can be made allmost everywere. Allthough when it comes down to really big power and super fast quarter times lag will become a issue. this is because of the larger compressor and exhaust housings needed to sopport more power. These make spool up take longer (the amount of time and rpm needed to start making boost up to full boost). Now you are back into a high stall converter that will take away from drivability. Allthough you can build one insane machine this way. Just depends on what you want. Also being able to turn up boost from in the cab can be a good or bad thing. Towing is almost always a bad idea with most of the kits I have seen as too much underhood heat will be generated.
I will edit later as I am out of time lol, just some random thoughts I thought I would post for you guys to chew on.
#17
Originally Posted by moregrip
Just remember, whitt1 is making 600+ rwhp with his setup, hmm, wonder how he did it? IMO, not many people give him the credit he is due btw
#18
Originally Posted by parish8
is there a dyno chart or anything from whitt? seems like back when this was brought up before even whitt said he thought it was a spike of some kind.
#19
TECH Addict
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Joined: Dec 2002
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From: Anderson, TX
Every system has its down falls. Centrifugal has belt slip issues. Turbos have heat issues. Roots and twin screw don't really have down falls until you go into a bigger cubes, then they CAN run out of breath.
They all kill 4L60e trannies and cost more than 3 grand!
They all kill 4L60e trannies and cost more than 3 grand!
#20
"They all kill 4l60e trannies and cost more then 3 grand!"
Nice.
I agree with the Radix being a dead solid reliable dd blower too. 600rwhp, was that with a 408? Spending 5k on a 408 for a 20% increase in power (as we know its not hard to hit 500rwhp with one) just does not hit home with me. I love the Radix blowers do not get me wrong its just that they do not work that well in that arena.
Nice.
I agree with the Radix being a dead solid reliable dd blower too. 600rwhp, was that with a 408? Spending 5k on a 408 for a 20% increase in power (as we know its not hard to hit 500rwhp with one) just does not hit home with me. I love the Radix blowers do not get me wrong its just that they do not work that well in that arena.






