8.1L into '10 Suburban 2500 with 6L90E
06-23-2016, 12:03 PM
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8.1L into '10 Suburban 2500 with 6L90E
Does anyone know if or how this would work? Given that the TCM is integrated in the transmission does this matter much? ECM from GMT800 truck work with new GMT900? Want to go as seamless as possible but not sure if it will work without too much hassle.
06-23-2016, 06:00 PM
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Sure! But you may be going a different direction than a stock 8.1L like you're thinking...
Your computer uses a different reluctor (58 tooth not a 24 like the stock 8.1L came with) so you would have to run a converter to run a factory 8.1L engine. After you set up the reluctor converter, your tuner of choice should be able to modify your air / fuel and you can run the 8.1L just like any LS engine. The small block -> 8.1L swap is relatively easy, you'll need a set of motor mounts, an 8.1L flywheel and you'll have to lengthen a few wires (MAP, cam sensor, crank sensor) but thats about it.
If you don't want to run a converter - we're just about to put up a new page on our site. PSI engines produces an 8.8L (540cid) which is identical to the 8.1L engine and is used for large commercial trucks / pumping oil / lots of other industrial applications.
PSI's base engine is not performance oriented (roughly 250hp / 520ft-lbs), and they don't care to go after the performance market. We solved that issue by joining forces and creating an aluminum headed crate engine in either 8.8L/540cid or 9.4L/572cid sizes. These engines will come in your choice of 24 or 58 tooth reluctors and match all the same dimensions and ports as the factory 8.1L. Want to run a great big cam or a supercharger on top of a computer controlled 572? No problem.
We'll be shooting the video for these engines tomorrow, I will try and post the video / page as soon as we have everything together (probably 1-2 weeks).
Your computer uses a different reluctor (58 tooth not a 24 like the stock 8.1L came with) so you would have to run a converter to run a factory 8.1L engine. After you set up the reluctor converter, your tuner of choice should be able to modify your air / fuel and you can run the 8.1L just like any LS engine. The small block -> 8.1L swap is relatively easy, you'll need a set of motor mounts, an 8.1L flywheel and you'll have to lengthen a few wires (MAP, cam sensor, crank sensor) but thats about it.
If you don't want to run a converter - we're just about to put up a new page on our site. PSI engines produces an 8.8L (540cid) which is identical to the 8.1L engine and is used for large commercial trucks / pumping oil / lots of other industrial applications.
PSI's base engine is not performance oriented (roughly 250hp / 520ft-lbs), and they don't care to go after the performance market. We solved that issue by joining forces and creating an aluminum headed crate engine in either 8.8L/540cid or 9.4L/572cid sizes. These engines will come in your choice of 24 or 58 tooth reluctors and match all the same dimensions and ports as the factory 8.1L. Want to run a great big cam or a supercharger on top of a computer controlled 572? No problem.
We'll be shooting the video for these engines tomorrow, I will try and post the video / page as soon as we have everything together (probably 1-2 weeks).
Last edited by Raylar Engineering; 06-23-2016 at 06:10 PM.
06-23-2016, 11:08 PM
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So what's involved in the reluctor converter? Do I use my ECM and run a tune from an 8.1L truck/SUV VIN vehicle in it? Mechanically I believe it is straight forward except for the few wires but like the D-Max conversions in not sure how to get the computers to read and send the proper signals everywhere. My choice is either a slightly built 8.1L swap or a full LMM Duramax conversion. Trying to decide which one is honestly easier.
06-23-2016, 11:36 PM
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So what's involved in the reluctor converter? Do I use my ECM and run a tune from an 8.1L truck/SUV VIN vehicle in it? Mechanically I believe it is straight forward except for the few wires but like the D-Max conversions in not sure how to get the computers to read and send the proper signals everywhere. My choice is either a slightly built 8.1L swap or a full LMM Duramax conversion. Trying to decide which one is honestly easier.
In our experience, they're about 90% as good as you want it to be. Our test vehicle (2003 Yukon) had occasional starting issues where it would require two or three cranks to turn over. This is why we pushed for both 58x and 24x reluctor options for the aftermarket 8.1L blocks, less confusion with various vehicle applications.
06-24-2016, 01:05 PM
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I believe its more or less a plug and play deal in most applications, though I am unsure if there is additional tuning required. You may want to contact Lingenfelter or the vendor of choice on exactly what you'll need to do.
In our experience, they're about 90% as good as you want it to be. Our test vehicle (2003 Yukon) had occasional starting issues where it would require two or three cranks to turn over. This is why we pushed for both 58x and 24x reluctor options for the aftermarket 8.1L blocks, less confusion with various vehicle applications.
In our experience, they're about 90% as good as you want it to be. Our test vehicle (2003 Yukon) had occasional starting issues where it would require two or three cranks to turn over. This is why we pushed for both 58x and 24x reluctor options for the aftermarket 8.1L blocks, less confusion with various vehicle applications.
From what I see, the Lingenfelter converters have some issues with needing to crank several times like you stated. I'm certain my wife won't want that...
Not sure what the cost of one the crate engines would be from you but if I were a betting man, for the money, an LMM swap might be the better ticket.
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06-24-2016, 01:27 PM
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You can not use the signal convertor mentioned. It works in reverse of what you are thinking.
From there site:
"The Lingenfelter TRG-002 module allows Gen IV GM V8 engines with the 58x crankshaft trigger or reluctor wheel and the 4x camshaft timing gear to be installed in earlier vehicles designed to accept the 24x crankshaft trigger wheel and the 1x camshaft trigger wheel without having to take the engine apart to change the cam timing gear or the crankshaft reluctor wheel. "
At one time they tried to do the opposite but the signal was not stable enough and they stopped working on it from what I was told.
That being said, you could convert/adapt it to work with the newer ECU. You could try an External Crank mount of the 58X wheel and sensor if you didn't want to go inside. As for the cam signal change from the cam gear I am not sure what options would be available. I think there is different gears you can use but not positive.
The easiest option would be LMM/Allison as it was equipped in the trucks and would be easier to obtain donor parts for a swap. The 8.1 is going to be a custom set up. You will either have to go into the engine or have someone that can do it for you. Not saying it can't be done as anything is possible. It's just uncharted territory. Then you will need to have a custom tune written to work for your swap.
From there site:
"The Lingenfelter TRG-002 module allows Gen IV GM V8 engines with the 58x crankshaft trigger or reluctor wheel and the 4x camshaft timing gear to be installed in earlier vehicles designed to accept the 24x crankshaft trigger wheel and the 1x camshaft trigger wheel without having to take the engine apart to change the cam timing gear or the crankshaft reluctor wheel. "
At one time they tried to do the opposite but the signal was not stable enough and they stopped working on it from what I was told.
That being said, you could convert/adapt it to work with the newer ECU. You could try an External Crank mount of the 58X wheel and sensor if you didn't want to go inside. As for the cam signal change from the cam gear I am not sure what options would be available. I think there is different gears you can use but not positive.
The easiest option would be LMM/Allison as it was equipped in the trucks and would be easier to obtain donor parts for a swap. The 8.1 is going to be a custom set up. You will either have to go into the engine or have someone that can do it for you. Not saying it can't be done as anything is possible. It's just uncharted territory. Then you will need to have a custom tune written to work for your swap.
06-24-2016, 01:51 PM
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Unfortunately, as cool as it would be to have the big block in my suburban, I don't think it would be as easy or cost effective as doing an LMM swap.
I also saw where Lingenfelter HAD been working on a converter to go from 24 to 58x but I couldn't find one for sale so I assumed they stopped that project.
That sucks though because an 8.1L swap would be a sweet deal. Too bad no one has figured out a way to tune with that signal in the E38 controller.
If I had an older Suburban this would probably be a no brainer.......
I also saw where Lingenfelter HAD been working on a converter to go from 24 to 58x but I couldn't find one for sale so I assumed they stopped that project.
That sucks though because an 8.1L swap would be a sweet deal. Too bad no one has figured out a way to tune with that signal in the E38 controller.
If I had an older Suburban this would probably be a no brainer.......