HPT absolutely does change some tables etc. in real-time. There are limitations on the number of tables that can be changed i real time though because of they way the process works.

I believe once you have finished making your RTT changes you need to flash that updated calibration into the PCM. With EFILive the changes you make real-time are comitted at that instant into the actual PCM tables.

Different methods, each with their pros/cons.

 

You still have similar functionality (BiDirectional controls) as HPT's RTT feature, it's just not packaged in the same way. You have ability to alter Commanded Spark, Delta Spark, Commanded AFR, TCC lock/release, commanded gears, etc.

HPT does a good job of applying those bidirectional controls to a set of specific tables in your tune, giving you a good user experience.

Both will be equally effective when tuning on the dyno.

 

correct...I'll be doing a demo more then likely on how our RTT system works & how simple it is to apply & use.

Our solution gives you access to what "we" consider the most important parameters for tuning ie:
MAF Table
VE Table
High Octane Spark Table
Boost Enrichment Table
PE Table
VE vs. TPS multiplyer(Alpha-N)
Target idle speed table
Idle Airflow table(raf)
Iac Steps vs. effective area table
Idle Spark advance in park
Overspeed spark correction
Underspeed spark correction
O2 switchpoints

Theres some other knock sensor stuff as well but can't remember the tables off the top of my head, but you get the picture.

For the price(Free with our custom operating systems) its hard to beat...and at a starting price of as little as $499 compared to $1500 or whatever it is for EFILive's scan & tune package + the moates system its really a deal.

not even remotely similar, but you really need to try it to see that. Unlike bidirectional controls which basically limits you to one cell ie setup afr for 13.0 across the board even at idle & part throttle, RTT allows you to edit the PE table or the MAF table in real time to get your desired afr at every cell in the powerband...making finding peak hp/tq very easy.

this I agree with, both moates' system and ours work great on the dyno since you no longer have to shut the car off for that information to be taken in & adjusted which can be a huge time saver.

 

Unless the method in which Bidirectional controls works has been re-written, it is the same, just quite a bit different of packaging. HPT is keeping track of and making bidi adjustments automatically depending on what load point, etc you are in.

I'm not sure how the bidi functions worked with HPT before RTT was an option, but I'm not forced to sit at one specific AFR or spark advance across the board with EFI Live's bidi functions. It's all adjustable at any point I want to make it. So, if I'm sitting on a dyno, looking for peak torque at 80kPa and 2400rpms, I might want to command 31* of timing and 13.5:1. Once I'm done with that cell, I can very easily adjust the commanded timing and AFR and move onto the next one.

 

Wow, way over my head. I'm still a newbie. I just think the price is a little steep for the EFI Live package. If you spend a lot of time dyno tuning and need to cut back on your dyno rental fees then I guess $1500+ would be worth it in the long run, but it would have to be a LONG run.

 

Dude, we don't even use bidi commands for RTT.. We wrote our own custom operating system using proprietary commands..

Its MUCH MUCH more than bidi.

When you make a change with our real time editor, you are making the change to the actual table in the RAM of the PCM.

Yes, after you are done real time tuning the vehicle, you have to spend 30 seconds reflashing your tune back in to make your changes stick.. so as you save 50 minutes on the dyno with our RTT, you do lose those 30 seconds.

 

I stand corrected.

 

Sounds like the EFI Live folks should buy a interface from HP Tuners and give it a try. They might like it...

LOL. Does it really cost $1500 to Real Time Tune with EFI Live?

 

using their Scan & Tune package yes...

Scan & Tune V2=$749
Moates' Roadrunner License-$199
Moates' Roadrunner-$599 or $649 depending on which pcm you need and there are a few of them:
97-98 LS1
99-02 LS1
03+ LS1
LB7 Duramax

$749+$599+$199=$1547
or
$749+$649+$199=$1597 respectively.

Although some of their resellers offer packages slightly cheaper thats pretty close to what you'd end up paying and mind you thats without the bluetooth option which is another $95 I believe.

Ours comes in two flavors
$499 Standard
$649 Pro

no extra hardware needed as it uses the stock pcm in all applications.

2 ways to go about it, both have their natural flaws & disadvantages to each other but you CAN'T go wrong with either.

 

Those numbers look correct 'foff667'...

One other option which is often no remembered is that you can actually buy the Scan Only licenses of either FlashScan V1 or V2.

That reduces the pricing a bit:
- FlashScan V2 Scan Only = $399
- FlashScan V1 Scan Only = $249

So that makes the final numbers:
- V1 (249 + 599 + 199): $1047
- V2 (399 + 599 + 199): $1197

For a LB7 Duramax Roadrunner it is an extra $50.