T/M question
03-09-2006, 09:04 PM
#11
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To answer your question in one word, yes.
TO elaborate ... it's actually a combination of abuse modes and TQM. Both of which are cancelled out when you remove TQM.
Follow Grippy's tables and that will get you on the right track.
To reduce TQM by a percent, multiply the following table by the decimal equivelant to the percent you want to reduce it by. (50% would be .50, 75% would be .75, etc.)
TO elaborate ... it's actually a combination of abuse modes and TQM. Both of which are cancelled out when you remove TQM.
Follow Grippy's tables and that will get you on the right track.
To reduce TQM by a percent, multiply the following table by the decimal equivelant to the percent you want to reduce it by. (50% would be .50, 75% would be .75, etc.)
03-10-2006, 08:38 AM
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The reason your truck doesnt start moving till 3000rpm is because you dont make any real HP or TQ till then. Removing TQ managment will help durring your shifts but its not really gonna get you off the line faster. You have a 2 choices, make more HP or get a stall that gets you into your powerband quicker.
03-10-2006, 03:15 PM
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Sorry for being illiterate on this tuning subject but,I just recieved my HPtuners today.At first I would only like to remove just 80% of TM.
Flyer in your charts exactly how much TM is removed-sorry for asking but this is new to me and I really don't want to mess up my new truck.
Flyer in your charts exactly how much TM is removed-sorry for asking but this is new to me and I really don't want to mess up my new truck.
03-10-2006, 04:35 PM
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In the 'big pic', there is 50% removed. If you want to remove 80%, then multiply that table I showed in the first post by .8.
F8L, I was under the same belief until I tried it. TQM, more so abuse modes I would assume, do pull timing at low rpms.
F8L, I was under the same belief until I tried it. TQM, more so abuse modes I would assume, do pull timing at low rpms.
03-10-2006, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer
In the 'big pic', there is 50% removed. If you want to remove 80%, then multiply that table I showed in the first post by .8.
F8L, I was under the same belief until I tried it. TQM, more so abuse modes I would assume, do pull timing at low rpms.
F8L, I was under the same belief until I tried it. TQM, more so abuse modes I would assume, do pull timing at low rpms.
Last edited by ASkipper; 03-10-2006 at 09:18 PM.
03-10-2006, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Flyer
In the 'big pic', there is 50% removed. If you want to remove 80%, then multiply that table I showed in the first post by .8.
F8L, I was under the same belief until I tried it. TQM, more so abuse modes I would assume, do pull timing at low rpms.
F8L, I was under the same belief until I tried it. TQM, more so abuse modes I would assume, do pull timing at low rpms.
I've had TQ managment fully romoved when I was still mostly stock and it didnt fix the dead spot on any of my vehicles. The Converter did though. Does anyone have any 60' or 0-60 data to back this up? It be interesting to see.
03-10-2006, 10:46 PM
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THe only concrete data I have is from a 4.8 with 18's I was tuning. With half removed it still would not turn over the big *** tires. Once all of it was removed it would barely turn them over. It wasn't a significant differnece, but there was a difference.
03-13-2006, 04:22 PM
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Set set my TM to ZERO in my 1997 rcsb. Acceleration from a dig was improved quite a bit.
In my stock tune, TM was tuned to take off up to 15 degrees of timing from 0-1200 rpm
remove up to 30 degrees from 1200 - 2400 rpm
remove up to 29 degrees from 2400 - 2800 rpm
remove up to 26 degree from 2800 - 3200 rpm
remove up to 25 degrees from 3200 - 4400 rpm.
All of the timing is possibly taken away from the WOT timing table. Needless to say the truck worked a lot better out of the hole with TM removed 100%.
Since the Vortec GEN 1-E is so strong at low rpm maybe removing it has more of an effect than it does on the GEN 3/4 engines at low rpm.
The TM is suposed to be stronger on theGEN 3/4 engines.
At the track I use slicks for testing as that just takes 1 variable out of the equation. With TM the only change in the tune, headers ( 1 5/8" x 2.5" Hooker long tubes into dual 2 1/2" cats with turndowns right off the cats) caused my 60 ft to drop from 2.5 down to 2.2 seconds. I dont know if that sounds that imporessive to you or not, but I can tell you that it felt night in day while in the truck.
The truck went from a dead hook with 28 x 8" slicks to turning them about a 1/4 turn. Every run was using a WOT stomp from idle.
Then adding a stock TC out of an S-10 with the 4.3L L35 V6 brought the 60 ft down to 2.0 seconds. I can hold the engine WOT without the tires spinning and the tach reads 2500-2600 rpm.
The only reason a converter would fix a dead spot is by makingthe engine totally avoid the rpm at which the dead spot occured.
In the newer trucks there are tables for launch retard which removes timing when large TPS inputs are read with low VSS inputs. HPTuners and EFILive can remove this.
There seems to be quite a few tables that Gm is using to try and manage engine power to save there questionable 700r4/4l60/4l60e/65e/70e engine family last. Defeating these devices sure did impriove my trucks acceleration from a dig and while underway.
EDIT: BTW I am using Tunercat OBD2 to adjust my 1997 Vortec 350's PCM tables. I believ its the only tuning software available for the early GEN1-E Vortecs. The newer GEN 3/4 Vortecs sure do have MANY more self tuning options.
peace
Hog
In my stock tune, TM was tuned to take off up to 15 degrees of timing from 0-1200 rpm
remove up to 30 degrees from 1200 - 2400 rpm
remove up to 29 degrees from 2400 - 2800 rpm
remove up to 26 degree from 2800 - 3200 rpm
remove up to 25 degrees from 3200 - 4400 rpm.
All of the timing is possibly taken away from the WOT timing table. Needless to say the truck worked a lot better out of the hole with TM removed 100%.
Since the Vortec GEN 1-E is so strong at low rpm maybe removing it has more of an effect than it does on the GEN 3/4 engines at low rpm.
The TM is suposed to be stronger on theGEN 3/4 engines.
At the track I use slicks for testing as that just takes 1 variable out of the equation. With TM the only change in the tune, headers ( 1 5/8" x 2.5" Hooker long tubes into dual 2 1/2" cats with turndowns right off the cats) caused my 60 ft to drop from 2.5 down to 2.2 seconds. I dont know if that sounds that imporessive to you or not, but I can tell you that it felt night in day while in the truck.
The truck went from a dead hook with 28 x 8" slicks to turning them about a 1/4 turn. Every run was using a WOT stomp from idle.
Then adding a stock TC out of an S-10 with the 4.3L L35 V6 brought the 60 ft down to 2.0 seconds. I can hold the engine WOT without the tires spinning and the tach reads 2500-2600 rpm.
The only reason a converter would fix a dead spot is by makingthe engine totally avoid the rpm at which the dead spot occured.
In the newer trucks there are tables for launch retard which removes timing when large TPS inputs are read with low VSS inputs. HPTuners and EFILive can remove this.
There seems to be quite a few tables that Gm is using to try and manage engine power to save there questionable 700r4/4l60/4l60e/65e/70e engine family last. Defeating these devices sure did impriove my trucks acceleration from a dig and while underway.
EDIT: BTW I am using Tunercat OBD2 to adjust my 1997 Vortec 350's PCM tables. I believ its the only tuning software available for the early GEN1-E Vortecs. The newer GEN 3/4 Vortecs sure do have MANY more self tuning options.
peace
Hog
