HPTuners forum is impossible to get answers out of....I need help with false knock
May 31, 2006 | 01:44 PM
#1
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Joined: Feb 2003
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From: Geneseo, NY
HPTuners forum is impossible to get answers out of....I need help with false knock
Without switching to a newer OS is there a way to cure (or at least control) false knock ??
I understand HOW the knock sensors work and the parameters they work within....but false knock seems to not follow the rules. here's my questions on the matter:
Tables to edit:
Engine->Spark Control->Knock Sensors->Knock Sensor Level->vs. MAP vs. Cyl: This is a wierd looking table but I understand what it does (knock harmonics by cylinder) so since most of my false knock is up high (above 50g/cyl and 4000rpm) can I multiply this table by say 120% (or more if necessary) above 4000rpm to try and control the "false knock" without desensitizing the sensors to the point where REAL knock isn't caught ??
Engine->Spark Control->Knock Sensors->Knock Sensor Level->Tip in TPS:
Can someone PLEASE give me a range to work with on this sucker ?!?!?...I know min is 0 and max is 64 but that REALLY doesn't help me as I'm not sure at what value the sensors go deaf to valvetrain noise but will still pick up REAL knock (the same goes for the above table as well...a working range would be nice to have)
Engine->Spark Control->Spark Retard->Burst Knock Retard->Enable Delta Cylinder Air: In what table is the base cylinder air defined so that I can figure out a reasonable value for the delta in this table ??...or if my thinking is wrong about this can someone PLEASE correct me and tell me what this table references and how to adjust it correctly ??
I understand HOW the knock sensors work and the parameters they work within....but false knock seems to not follow the rules. here's my questions on the matter:
Tables to edit:
Engine->Spark Control->Knock Sensors->Knock Sensor Level->vs. MAP vs. Cyl: This is a wierd looking table but I understand what it does (knock harmonics by cylinder) so since most of my false knock is up high (above 50g/cyl and 4000rpm) can I multiply this table by say 120% (or more if necessary) above 4000rpm to try and control the "false knock" without desensitizing the sensors to the point where REAL knock isn't caught ??
Engine->Spark Control->Knock Sensors->Knock Sensor Level->Tip in TPS:
Can someone PLEASE give me a range to work with on this sucker ?!?!?...I know min is 0 and max is 64 but that REALLY doesn't help me as I'm not sure at what value the sensors go deaf to valvetrain noise but will still pick up REAL knock (the same goes for the above table as well...a working range would be nice to have)
Engine->Spark Control->Spark Retard->Burst Knock Retard->Enable Delta Cylinder Air: In what table is the base cylinder air defined so that I can figure out a reasonable value for the delta in this table ??...or if my thinking is wrong about this can someone PLEASE correct me and tell me what this table references and how to adjust it correctly ??
May 31, 2006 | 02:07 PM
#2
The problem I feel, is no one is gonna have a specific "data" record of where false and real cross. Waaaaaaaay too many different scenarios. With that said Yelo I don't have my laptop in front of me but on the topic of burst knock...blah blah I zero'ed that table out. The pcm trying to make an educated guess at when knock MAY come on and then apply burst knock. Ha, with all the modding we do, I'd say it always looks like knock MIGHT come on.
The other two tables, I'll give you what i did to quiet the false knock down once i get in front of my laptop. i agree with your frustrations but it just differs between everybody. The real answer is that most take care of the knock (false) by deathening (such a word) the sensors. You just have to start going up say 5%, then another 5%, then another 5% until it goes awyay. Assuming you have identified it all as false, which I am sure you have. Not the answer you wanna hear eh?
The other two tables, I'll give you what i did to quiet the false knock down once i get in front of my laptop. i agree with your frustrations but it just differs between everybody. The real answer is that most take care of the knock (false) by deathening (such a word) the sensors. You just have to start going up say 5%, then another 5%, then another 5% until it goes awyay. Assuming you have identified it all as false, which I am sure you have. Not the answer you wanna hear eh?
May 31, 2006 | 02:12 PM
#3
In addition to deadning (whatever) the sensors, you can also adjust the max retard. When I was using my 00 PCM, I had the sensors desensitized (thats the word) 75% and had the max retard down to 3 or 4*
May 31, 2006 | 03:44 PM
#4
Originally Posted by Yelo
Without switching to a newer OS is there a way to cure (or at least control) false knock ??
I understand HOW the knock sensors work and the parameters they work within....but false knock seems to not follow the rules. here's my questions on the matter:
Tables to edit:
Engine->Spark Control->Knock Sensors->Knock Sensor Level->vs. MAP vs. Cyl: This is a wierd looking table but I understand what it does (knock harmonics by cylinder) so since most of my false knock is up high (above 50g/cyl and 4000rpm) can I multiply this table by say 120% (or more if necessary) above 4000rpm to try and control the "false knock" without desensitizing the sensors to the point where REAL knock isn't caught ??
Engine->Spark Control->Knock Sensors->Knock Sensor Level->Tip in TPS:
Can someone PLEASE give me a range to work with on this sucker ?!?!?...I know min is 0 and max is 64 but that REALLY doesn't help me as I'm not sure at what value the sensors go deaf to valvetrain noise but will still pick up REAL knock (the same goes for the above table as well...a working range would be nice to have)
Engine->Spark Control->Spark Retard->Burst Knock Retard->Enable Delta Cylinder Air: In what table is the base cylinder air defined so that I can figure out a reasonable value for the delta in this table ??...or if my thinking is wrong about this can someone PLEASE correct me and tell me what this table references and how to adjust it correctly ??
I understand HOW the knock sensors work and the parameters they work within....but false knock seems to not follow the rules. here's my questions on the matter:
Tables to edit:
Engine->Spark Control->Knock Sensors->Knock Sensor Level->vs. MAP vs. Cyl: This is a wierd looking table but I understand what it does (knock harmonics by cylinder) so since most of my false knock is up high (above 50g/cyl and 4000rpm) can I multiply this table by say 120% (or more if necessary) above 4000rpm to try and control the "false knock" without desensitizing the sensors to the point where REAL knock isn't caught ??
Engine->Spark Control->Knock Sensors->Knock Sensor Level->Tip in TPS:
Can someone PLEASE give me a range to work with on this sucker ?!?!?...I know min is 0 and max is 64 but that REALLY doesn't help me as I'm not sure at what value the sensors go deaf to valvetrain noise but will still pick up REAL knock (the same goes for the above table as well...a working range would be nice to have)
Engine->Spark Control->Spark Retard->Burst Knock Retard->Enable Delta Cylinder Air: In what table is the base cylinder air defined so that I can figure out a reasonable value for the delta in this table ??...or if my thinking is wrong about this can someone PLEASE correct me and tell me what this table references and how to adjust it correctly ??
2. If you pull timing and it goes away its probably real.
3. After you have done this and your running moderate timing then tweak the tables these are mine:
Tip in:14.00000 14.00000 14.00000 14.00000 14.00000 14.00000 14.00000 14.00000 14.00000 14.00000 14.00000 14.00000 14.00000 14.00000 11.00000 11.00000 11.00000 11.00000 11.00000 11.00000 11.00000
tip in rpm:17.00..................
vsrpmvscyl:11.00000 11.00000 11.00000 11.00000 11.00000 11.00000 10.00000 9.00000 8.00000 8.00000 8.00000 8.00000 8.00000 8.00000 8.00000 7.00000 6.00000 6.00000 6.00000 6.00000 6.00000
I like to leave the sensors fairly accute and adjust the global more plus raise the decay so when you get kr it quickly disappears and doesnt hang around forever like the stock programming. Im NA and dont have to worry alot about burst kr I just bump it to .06 and get it out of the way. If your getting lean spikes when you nail it try and tune some of it out by enabling pe earlier and tweaking the air tables. If your getting kr past 60% tps then its not tip in kr!!!!! Set your burst max table to a kr value that is strange that way you will recognize the number if you see it. You can do the same with the other tables that lets you narrow in on which type of kr it is.
But in the end your kr is most likely real and I like to approach it that way. Better safe than sorry and if it is false knock than you shouldnt be trying to eliminate it with tuning; you should be wondering what is causing it and fix the mechanical issue, thats what I would do
Last edited by 02sierraz71_5.3; May 31, 2006 at 04:59 PM.
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