Toyota's letter to hybrid owners
11-30-2005, 01:08 PM
#1
TECH Fanatic
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Dallas, North Mexico
Posts: 1,842
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Toyota's letter to hybrid owners
Dear Valued Hybrid Customer...
The Wall Street Journal
By Holman W. Jenkins Jr.
Nov. 30, 3005
We at the Toyota Motor Corporation are writing to address certain misconceptions that have arisen about your Toyota Prius model, which we are proud to note is driven by many celebrities, including Prince Charles and HBO's Larry David.
Our pioneering gasoline-electric hybrid, introduced in 1999, has become an object of adoration to the world's enlightened car buyers. Our competitors, including America's Big Three, are rushing out hybrid vehicles of their own. Unconfirmed media reports say that we at Toyota intend to double our hybrid output to 500,000 vehicles next year. Along with other members of the auto industry, we will be lobbying for tax breaks and HOV privileges for hybrid vehicles.
However, any romance entering its seventh year tends to go stale. Some purchasers have begun to question the practical value of our Hybrid Synergy Drive technology. You may be aware that a survey by Consumer Reports found that our vehicles achieve considerably less mileage (some 26 percent less) than the sticker rating implies. This has led to some unflattering media stories.
Let us assure you that the Prius remains one of the most fuel-efficient cars on the road. Toyota applauds your willingness to spend $9,500 over the price of any comparable vehicle for the privilege of saving, at current gasoline prices, approximately $580 a year.
And should the price of gasoline rise to $5, after 10 years and/or 130,000 miles of driving, you might even come close to breaking even on your investment in hybrid technology.
We recognize that our customers have an "emotional" relationship with their vehicles. This transcends even the regrettable truth that driving a fuel-efficient car does not yield any substantial benefits for society if it doesn't save the owner money.
Contrary to any loose statements made by our marketing partners in the environmental community and media, petroleum not consumed by Prius owners is not "saved." It does not remain in the ground. It is consumed by someone else. Greenhouse pollutants are released. Also, please note that the warranty and owner's manual say nothing about reducing America's dependence on foreign oil. This is not an oversight. The Prius is an "oil-dependent" vehicle. It runs on gasoline, supplied by the same world market that fuels other vehicles.
The Toyota Corporation regrets any misunderstanding our marketing may inadvertently have caused (or may cause in the future).
We share your belief that the days of the internal combustion engine are numbered. Further research by our economists suggests this will happen when the price of gasoline rises high enough to make alternative technologies cheaper than gasoline-powered cars.
We at Toyota want you to know we recognize this effect and have taken steps to compensate with the rest of our vehicle lineup.
Our 2006 Tundra pickup will be equipped with Toyota's new eight-cylinder engine, making it every bit as much of a gas guzzler as any American pickup. We are also redirecting our efforts to use our Hybrid Synergy Drive to increase power output rather than reduce gasoline consumption.
Take our new hybrid SUV, which produces 38 more horsepower but gets the same mileage as our conventional version. A New York Times reviewer wrote, "One question lingers after driving the 2006 Lexus RX400h: How did it come to this, that Toyota is now selling a hybrid gas-electric vehicle with no tangible fuel economy benefits?"
We hope this corrects any misimpression caused by our latest slogan ("Commute with Nature"). Hybrid technology is not "green" technology. Like heated seats or flashy exterior trim, it's merely an expensive option that generates large markups for the Toyota Corporation and its dealers.
You will share our pride in the latest figures from J.D. Power & Associates, which show that the Prius continues to move off a dealer's lot in just eight days, compared to 36 days for a Honda Civic hybrid. Clearly, our customers are willing to pay handsomely for the privilege of showing themselves behind the wheel of so conspicuously virtuous a vehicle.
But we are also a far-seeing corporation. We recognize that the Prius's distinctiveness may be a wasting asset for reasons outlined in this letter. Other motorists may see the Prius operator and think "sucker." Our lawyers advise us this may affect your car's resale value. Toyota regrets any inconvenience.
We want you to know that Toyota remains committed to advancing hybrid technology just as long as our customers are willing to make it worth our while. Our esteemed competitor, Nissan's Carlos Ghosn, was recently quoted saying, "There's such a buzz today that no CEO of a car manufacturer dares to say his real opinion of hybrid because he's accused of being retarded."
Another esteemed competitor, GM, has suggested that hybrid technology is best deployed in city buses, where large fuel consumption and stop-and-go driving might actually make it economically sensible.
These are just two examples of the short-sighted, stick-in-the-mud marketing instincts of our fellow automakers that are helping to make Toyota the largest car company in the world.
The Wall Street Journal
By Holman W. Jenkins Jr.
Nov. 30, 3005
We at the Toyota Motor Corporation are writing to address certain misconceptions that have arisen about your Toyota Prius model, which we are proud to note is driven by many celebrities, including Prince Charles and HBO's Larry David.
Our pioneering gasoline-electric hybrid, introduced in 1999, has become an object of adoration to the world's enlightened car buyers. Our competitors, including America's Big Three, are rushing out hybrid vehicles of their own. Unconfirmed media reports say that we at Toyota intend to double our hybrid output to 500,000 vehicles next year. Along with other members of the auto industry, we will be lobbying for tax breaks and HOV privileges for hybrid vehicles.
However, any romance entering its seventh year tends to go stale. Some purchasers have begun to question the practical value of our Hybrid Synergy Drive technology. You may be aware that a survey by Consumer Reports found that our vehicles achieve considerably less mileage (some 26 percent less) than the sticker rating implies. This has led to some unflattering media stories.
Let us assure you that the Prius remains one of the most fuel-efficient cars on the road. Toyota applauds your willingness to spend $9,500 over the price of any comparable vehicle for the privilege of saving, at current gasoline prices, approximately $580 a year.
And should the price of gasoline rise to $5, after 10 years and/or 130,000 miles of driving, you might even come close to breaking even on your investment in hybrid technology.
We recognize that our customers have an "emotional" relationship with their vehicles. This transcends even the regrettable truth that driving a fuel-efficient car does not yield any substantial benefits for society if it doesn't save the owner money.
Contrary to any loose statements made by our marketing partners in the environmental community and media, petroleum not consumed by Prius owners is not "saved." It does not remain in the ground. It is consumed by someone else. Greenhouse pollutants are released. Also, please note that the warranty and owner's manual say nothing about reducing America's dependence on foreign oil. This is not an oversight. The Prius is an "oil-dependent" vehicle. It runs on gasoline, supplied by the same world market that fuels other vehicles.
The Toyota Corporation regrets any misunderstanding our marketing may inadvertently have caused (or may cause in the future).
We share your belief that the days of the internal combustion engine are numbered. Further research by our economists suggests this will happen when the price of gasoline rises high enough to make alternative technologies cheaper than gasoline-powered cars.
We at Toyota want you to know we recognize this effect and have taken steps to compensate with the rest of our vehicle lineup.
Our 2006 Tundra pickup will be equipped with Toyota's new eight-cylinder engine, making it every bit as much of a gas guzzler as any American pickup. We are also redirecting our efforts to use our Hybrid Synergy Drive to increase power output rather than reduce gasoline consumption.
Take our new hybrid SUV, which produces 38 more horsepower but gets the same mileage as our conventional version. A New York Times reviewer wrote, "One question lingers after driving the 2006 Lexus RX400h: How did it come to this, that Toyota is now selling a hybrid gas-electric vehicle with no tangible fuel economy benefits?"
We hope this corrects any misimpression caused by our latest slogan ("Commute with Nature"). Hybrid technology is not "green" technology. Like heated seats or flashy exterior trim, it's merely an expensive option that generates large markups for the Toyota Corporation and its dealers.
You will share our pride in the latest figures from J.D. Power & Associates, which show that the Prius continues to move off a dealer's lot in just eight days, compared to 36 days for a Honda Civic hybrid. Clearly, our customers are willing to pay handsomely for the privilege of showing themselves behind the wheel of so conspicuously virtuous a vehicle.
But we are also a far-seeing corporation. We recognize that the Prius's distinctiveness may be a wasting asset for reasons outlined in this letter. Other motorists may see the Prius operator and think "sucker." Our lawyers advise us this may affect your car's resale value. Toyota regrets any inconvenience.
We want you to know that Toyota remains committed to advancing hybrid technology just as long as our customers are willing to make it worth our while. Our esteemed competitor, Nissan's Carlos Ghosn, was recently quoted saying, "There's such a buzz today that no CEO of a car manufacturer dares to say his real opinion of hybrid because he's accused of being retarded."
Another esteemed competitor, GM, has suggested that hybrid technology is best deployed in city buses, where large fuel consumption and stop-and-go driving might actually make it economically sensible.
These are just two examples of the short-sighted, stick-in-the-mud marketing instincts of our fellow automakers that are helping to make Toyota the largest car company in the world.
Unrelated note: the honda ridgeline has a V6 making less power than a 4.8 or 5.3 and gets almost the same gas milage, 21 vs 19. ohh boy. Consider its is like comparing a duramax to a 4.8 in terms of capability, its easy to overlook. at $2.50 a gallon and 15,000 miles per year, she saves under $200 a year.
Now my mom IS smart enough to look at a sticker and say "whoa, no way. not 16mpg" but she would also at the same time FURTHER rule out an american truck because of it
Christ I love my truck.
Last edited by treyZ28; 11-30-2005 at 01:35 PM.
11-30-2005, 06:47 PM
#6
TECH Veteran
You can pick up a Prius for $21,000, and they get 50+ MPG. Not 65 MPG like they're rated, only 50+ MPG. 
You're not going to find any vehicle for $12,500 ("$9,500 over the price of any comparable vehicle"), much less one as nice as the Prius on the inside. It is certainly much more Lexus than it is Camry.
At 15K miles per year, 50 MPG versus 20 MPG, and gas at $2.50/gallon, you would use 300 gallons versus 750 gallons, and spend $750 versus $1875, saving $1125. If you used a more realistic 15 MPG (what most of us average) the savings jumps to $1750 annually.
A lot of that article was just pure bullshit.
You're not going to find any vehicle for $12,500 ("$9,500 over the price of any comparable vehicle"), much less one as nice as the Prius on the inside. It is certainly much more Lexus than it is Camry.
At 15K miles per year, 50 MPG versus 20 MPG, and gas at $2.50/gallon, you would use 300 gallons versus 750 gallons, and spend $750 versus $1875, saving $1125. If you used a more realistic 15 MPG (what most of us average) the savings jumps to $1750 annually.
A lot of that article was just pure bullshit.
11-30-2005, 07:17 PM
#7
TECH Fanatic
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Dallas, North Mexico
Posts: 1,842
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Naked AV
You can pick up a Prius for $21,000, and they get 50+ MPG. Not 65 MPG like they're rated, only 50+ MPG.
You're not going to find any vehicle for $12,500 ("$9,500 over the price of any comparable vehicle"), much less one as nice as the Prius on the inside. It is certainly much more Lexus than it is Camry.
At 15K miles per year, 50 MPG versus 20 MPG, and gas at $2.50/gallon, you would use 300 gallons versus 750 gallons, and spend $750 versus $1875, saving $1125. If you used a more realistic 15 MPG (what most of us average) the savings jumps to $1750 annually.
A lot of that article was just pure bullshit.
You're not going to find any vehicle for $12,500 ("$9,500 over the price of any comparable vehicle"), much less one as nice as the Prius on the inside. It is certainly much more Lexus than it is Camry.
At 15K miles per year, 50 MPG versus 20 MPG, and gas at $2.50/gallon, you would use 300 gallons versus 750 gallons, and spend $750 versus $1875, saving $1125. If you used a more realistic 15 MPG (what most of us average) the savings jumps to $1750 annually.
A lot of that article was just pure bullshit.
A large portion of the article was about hybrids coming nowhere near their EPA numbers in the real world
Magazine finds test gas mileage lower than EPA's
Hybrids among vehicles in study
Detroit Free Press 09/07/05
by Bill Koenig / Bloomberg
Consumer Reports magazine said gas mileage in its tests of 303 cars and trucks was lower than U.S. government ratings for 90% of the vehicles, including gasoline-electric hybrids touted for fuel efficiency.
The shortfalls included most makes and models among the 2000 to 2006 vehicles it tested, Consumer Reports said in its October issue. For some, actual fuel efficiency was 35% to 50% lower than the Environmental Protection Agency ratings, according to the magazine, published by Consumers Union of Yonkers, N.Y.
Hybrids including Toyota Motor Corp.'s Prius and Honda Motor Co.'s Civic and Insight averaged 19 miles per gallon below EPA ratings, the magazine reported.
The EPA is concerned about the differences, Margo Oge, director of the agency's Office of Transportation and Air Quality, told the magazine.
Consumers are paying more attention to fuel efficiency as gasoline prices rise to more than $3 a gallon after Hurricane Katrina shut down oil refineries.
The U.S. average price for regular gasoline hit a record $3.041 a gallon Tuesday, AAA said on www.fuelgaugereport.com.
The agency didn't immediately respond to a telephone message from Bloomberg seeking a comment.
Consumer Reports said some the widest differences were for the diesel four-wheel-drive version of DaimlerChrysler AG's Jeep Liberty, at 11 miles per gallon in city driving compared with an EPA rating of 22; Honda's Civic Hybrid, at 26 m.p.g. in city driving compared with EPA's 48; and DaimlerChrysler's Chrysler 300C, at city mileage of 10 m.p.g. compared with EPA's 17.
Hybrids among vehicles in study
Detroit Free Press 09/07/05
by Bill Koenig / Bloomberg
Consumer Reports magazine said gas mileage in its tests of 303 cars and trucks was lower than U.S. government ratings for 90% of the vehicles, including gasoline-electric hybrids touted for fuel efficiency.
The shortfalls included most makes and models among the 2000 to 2006 vehicles it tested, Consumer Reports said in its October issue. For some, actual fuel efficiency was 35% to 50% lower than the Environmental Protection Agency ratings, according to the magazine, published by Consumers Union of Yonkers, N.Y.
Hybrids including Toyota Motor Corp.'s Prius and Honda Motor Co.'s Civic and Insight averaged 19 miles per gallon below EPA ratings, the magazine reported.
The EPA is concerned about the differences, Margo Oge, director of the agency's Office of Transportation and Air Quality, told the magazine.
Consumers are paying more attention to fuel efficiency as gasoline prices rise to more than $3 a gallon after Hurricane Katrina shut down oil refineries.
The U.S. average price for regular gasoline hit a record $3.041 a gallon Tuesday, AAA said on www.fuelgaugereport.com.
The agency didn't immediately respond to a telephone message from Bloomberg seeking a comment.
Consumer Reports said some the widest differences were for the diesel four-wheel-drive version of DaimlerChrysler AG's Jeep Liberty, at 11 miles per gallon in city driving compared with an EPA rating of 22; Honda's Civic Hybrid, at 26 m.p.g. in city driving compared with EPA's 48; and DaimlerChrysler's Chrysler 300C, at city mileage of 10 m.p.g. compared with EPA's 17.
So try those numbers again, comparing them a LEGIT competitor. Try... ohh I dont know.... a civic, corolla, golf, etc to a hybrid after subtracting 19mpg off of it.
Last edited by treyZ28; 11-30-2005 at 07:39 PM.
Trending Topics
11-30-2005, 07:33 PM
#8
TECH Veteran
Show me another car that gets 50 real MPG and costs $21K - or anything close - and then tell me the Prius is not a screaming deal. What I would really like is for someone to show me a car that costs $12K ($9500 less than $21K) that is not a used Yugo. That article is full of holes.
11-30-2005, 07:39 PM
#9
TECH Fanatic
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Dallas, North Mexico
Posts: 1,842
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Naked AV
Show me another car that gets 50 real MPG and costs $21K - or anything close - and then tell me the Prius is not a screaming deal. What I would really like is for someone to show me a car that costs $12K ($9500 less than $21K) that is not a used Yugo. That article is full of holes.
vw golf TDI for the same price actually gets 21mpg. I'm sure you could pull off a hyundia or kia gets about the same milage as a prius would ACTUALLY GET (the point of the article)
They'd be close. a TDI would blow it out of the water
TDI guys have a "1000mile club" where they pull down 1000miles in a 17 gallon tank
and (again) I couldn't build a prius on their site for less that about $23,500
edit: Kia.com says $11,xxx gets you 38mpg
hyundaiusa.com says 35mpg for $9,999
Last edited by treyZ28; 11-30-2005 at 07:49 PM.
11-30-2005, 07:41 PM
#10
TECH Fanatic
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Dallas
Posts: 1,243
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Man gas mileage is overrated. My LS1 with a 16.8 gallon tank would do a 40 mile round trip and be down 1/4. Even with 19mpg i had to fill the stupid thing every two weeks.
That's the one thing i like about trucks, you can do 50 miles of stop and go traffic and that gas gauge will barely move. It all depends on what you can afford: $30 every 2 weeks, or $60 every 5 weeks.
That's the one thing i like about trucks, you can do 50 miles of stop and go traffic and that gas gauge will barely move. It all depends on what you can afford: $30 every 2 weeks, or $60 every 5 weeks.