intake manifold
03-04-2009, 09:09 PM
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intake manifold
does anyone know where i can find a Marine Intake maifold for a 1996 350?? looking to install one on my dads truck
thanks
John
thanks
John
03-06-2009, 10:19 AM
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Here is some info
__________________________________________________ _________________
(snip)
For those of you that want to purchase a NEW assembly -
Call Randy at KEM Equipment, 503-692-5698 ( http://www.kemequipment.com ) Cost is $760 + shipping to your door. In May 2007, they had over 10 in stock.
kempower@hotmail.com
Kem Equipment, Inc.
10800 S.W. Herman Road
Tualatin, OR. 97062
For those of you that want to purchase a USED take off assembly from a fresh water boat (not salt water) -
Call Roger at Michigan Motorz, 248-554-4400 ( http://www.michiganmotorz.com/ ) Cost varies due to condition and availability, but should be about $500. In May 2007, they had over 5 in stock.
sales@michiganmotorz.com
Michigan Motorz
4706 Fernlee Ave
Royal Oak, MI 48073
In the past month, I have had my hands on an intake assembly from each of these two sources. Each intake assembly was identical to the 20 or so intake assemblies I have provided to others on this board in the past 18 months.
For anyone purchasing an intake manifold assembly from either of these two sources, or from any other source, you will need a kit of parts to convert the marine manifold to properly function in your truck.
I now have several of these kits available.
With these kits, you will need a floor standing drill press, soldering iron, electrical connector crimper, and a tap wrench.
You will have to modify the lower cast iron manifold half by drilling and taping the missing temperature sensor threaded hole in the thermostat area so you can reuse and install your stock truck water temperature sensor in the stock location. The kit includes a drilling fixture and correct size COBALT drill bit and thread tap.
You will have to drill and tap a second hole lower on the manifold for the installation of a 3/8" NPT x 5/8" brass hose barb for the water pump bypass (45 degree "goose neck"). The kit includes a drilling fixture and correct size COBALT drill bit and thread tap.
You will have to finish 'dress' the thermostat bowl area where your reused stock thermostat will seat in the closed position. These surfaces were rough and in the "as-cast" condition and needed finishing for proper automotive thermostat sealing. The kit includes a 3M Type-R back up pad with the proper Roloc System abrasive pad to preform this surface dressing on your drill press.
You will have to drill and tap into the aluminum marine manifold upper half for the necessary fitting for your power brake vacuum source, the EVAP plumbing (if you choose to retain it) and crankcase ventilation plumbing, and the like. Simply look at your stock truck manifold you remove and copy it. The kit includes a drilling fixture and correct size COBALT drill bit and thread tap to properly size and locate these holes.
If you are modifying a used marine intake manifold, the balance of the work on the lower manifold includes using a bottoming tap to chase the 6 mm threads on the thermostat cover mounting holes, the 1/2 NPT threads for the heater hose "quick disconnect" connection, and the 1/2 NPT EGR pipe threads too. These are common tap sizes which you will have to provide yourself.
This work will not be necessary on a new marine intake manifold.
I will also include the wiring harness components necessary to fabricate your own injector harness for the external fuel injectors, and properly splice this into your existing truck engine harness. This will include the correct wire gage with automotive grade insulation, and correct color coding to match up with your truck, and the EV1 (Jetronic) injector connectors that are by far the most common. If you are going to size and acquire your own fuel injectors, you will want to use these connectors as the EV1 injectors are the most common and least expensive. If you intend to use the included marine injectors as "Hog" has done, you will need the newer, and more expensive EV6 injector connectors. I have these as well, but will be an additional cost. The stock truck spider injector is rated at 19 lbs/hr at the industry standardized 43.5 fuel psi. The EV6 injectors used on these marine manifolds are rated at 24 lbs, and use the EV6 electrical connector like the newer LS2 and LS7 GM motors, the Cadillac Northstar engines used in the Corvette based XLR, and most Ford Cobra and Chrysler performance engines since about 1996.
The marine fuel injectors on the used manifolds are rated at 24 lbs, and likely had fuel in them when taken out of service so cleaning and rebuilding of the injectors may be necessary if you want to use them. You can likely price this cleaning and rebuilding service out locally for about $10-12/injector.
The fuel injectors on the new manifold are the same 24 lb injectors, and are new. No cleaning will be necessary.
I will also include a engine harness wiring diagram for your use when fabricating your own external injector wiring harness. I will also include non-insulated butt crimp connectors, a tube of automotive grade silicone seal (RTV), and heat shrink tubing so you can make automotive grade wire harness splice connections to your engine wire harness. To do this, remember this sequence; "crimp, solder, seal". You first need to crimp the mon-insulated butt connector to fasten the two ends of the butt splice together to provide the mechanical (strength) connection of the two wires being spliced. You follow this up by soldering the non-insulated butt connector to provide a positive electrical connection between the two wire ends. "Wet" the connector with the hot solder to assure solder flows inside the butt connector thoroughly. Once the solder is cool, then coat the soldered connection with silicone seal (RTV), and while the RTV is still wet, slide heat shrink tubing over the joint and heat the tubing to shrink it down onto the wet RTV. If you have used enough RTV, some will squeeze out of the ends of the heat shrink as it shrinks down onto the wire. This is what you want. Once you have heat shrunk all 16 splices, then let all 16 wires sit undisturbed overnight so the RTV silicone seal fully cures without any voids or air pockets. Following this procedure of crimp, solder, seal will produce a strong, permanent, and weather tight engine harness wire splice. This is how GM does it on their own engine wire harnesses. The only difference is GM uses a UV light curing silicone to speed up the curing cycle.
I will also include a stainless steel bracket to clamp the stock truck MAP sensor down to the aluminum manifold top half. The stock truck manifold uses molded-in clips in the plastic upper manifold half to hold the MAP sensor in place. Using the stainless steel bracket I will provide and a Viton 'O' ring will allow the stock truck MAP sensor to mount and seal to the slightly larger sensor hole bore found on the marine manifold, to keep you from needing to purchase a new MAP sensor when your OEM truck sensor is likely functioning just fine as it is. I will include two slightly different sized "O" rings. Use the larger "O" ring if possible to get the tightest manifold seal. If this "O" ring is too tight, the second "O" ring is one size smaller. One or the other will work.
__________________________________________________ _________________
(snip)
For those of you that want to purchase a NEW assembly -
Call Randy at KEM Equipment, 503-692-5698 ( http://www.kemequipment.com ) Cost is $760 + shipping to your door. In May 2007, they had over 10 in stock.
kempower@hotmail.com
Kem Equipment, Inc.
10800 S.W. Herman Road
Tualatin, OR. 97062
For those of you that want to purchase a USED take off assembly from a fresh water boat (not salt water) -
Call Roger at Michigan Motorz, 248-554-4400 ( http://www.michiganmotorz.com/ ) Cost varies due to condition and availability, but should be about $500. In May 2007, they had over 5 in stock.
sales@michiganmotorz.com
Michigan Motorz
4706 Fernlee Ave
Royal Oak, MI 48073
In the past month, I have had my hands on an intake assembly from each of these two sources. Each intake assembly was identical to the 20 or so intake assemblies I have provided to others on this board in the past 18 months.
For anyone purchasing an intake manifold assembly from either of these two sources, or from any other source, you will need a kit of parts to convert the marine manifold to properly function in your truck.
I now have several of these kits available.
With these kits, you will need a floor standing drill press, soldering iron, electrical connector crimper, and a tap wrench.
You will have to modify the lower cast iron manifold half by drilling and taping the missing temperature sensor threaded hole in the thermostat area so you can reuse and install your stock truck water temperature sensor in the stock location. The kit includes a drilling fixture and correct size COBALT drill bit and thread tap.
You will have to drill and tap a second hole lower on the manifold for the installation of a 3/8" NPT x 5/8" brass hose barb for the water pump bypass (45 degree "goose neck"). The kit includes a drilling fixture and correct size COBALT drill bit and thread tap.
You will have to finish 'dress' the thermostat bowl area where your reused stock thermostat will seat in the closed position. These surfaces were rough and in the "as-cast" condition and needed finishing for proper automotive thermostat sealing. The kit includes a 3M Type-R back up pad with the proper Roloc System abrasive pad to preform this surface dressing on your drill press.
You will have to drill and tap into the aluminum marine manifold upper half for the necessary fitting for your power brake vacuum source, the EVAP plumbing (if you choose to retain it) and crankcase ventilation plumbing, and the like. Simply look at your stock truck manifold you remove and copy it. The kit includes a drilling fixture and correct size COBALT drill bit and thread tap to properly size and locate these holes.
If you are modifying a used marine intake manifold, the balance of the work on the lower manifold includes using a bottoming tap to chase the 6 mm threads on the thermostat cover mounting holes, the 1/2 NPT threads for the heater hose "quick disconnect" connection, and the 1/2 NPT EGR pipe threads too. These are common tap sizes which you will have to provide yourself.
This work will not be necessary on a new marine intake manifold.
I will also include the wiring harness components necessary to fabricate your own injector harness for the external fuel injectors, and properly splice this into your existing truck engine harness. This will include the correct wire gage with automotive grade insulation, and correct color coding to match up with your truck, and the EV1 (Jetronic) injector connectors that are by far the most common. If you are going to size and acquire your own fuel injectors, you will want to use these connectors as the EV1 injectors are the most common and least expensive. If you intend to use the included marine injectors as "Hog" has done, you will need the newer, and more expensive EV6 injector connectors. I have these as well, but will be an additional cost. The stock truck spider injector is rated at 19 lbs/hr at the industry standardized 43.5 fuel psi. The EV6 injectors used on these marine manifolds are rated at 24 lbs, and use the EV6 electrical connector like the newer LS2 and LS7 GM motors, the Cadillac Northstar engines used in the Corvette based XLR, and most Ford Cobra and Chrysler performance engines since about 1996.
The marine fuel injectors on the used manifolds are rated at 24 lbs, and likely had fuel in them when taken out of service so cleaning and rebuilding of the injectors may be necessary if you want to use them. You can likely price this cleaning and rebuilding service out locally for about $10-12/injector.
The fuel injectors on the new manifold are the same 24 lb injectors, and are new. No cleaning will be necessary.
I will also include a engine harness wiring diagram for your use when fabricating your own external injector wiring harness. I will also include non-insulated butt crimp connectors, a tube of automotive grade silicone seal (RTV), and heat shrink tubing so you can make automotive grade wire harness splice connections to your engine wire harness. To do this, remember this sequence; "crimp, solder, seal". You first need to crimp the mon-insulated butt connector to fasten the two ends of the butt splice together to provide the mechanical (strength) connection of the two wires being spliced. You follow this up by soldering the non-insulated butt connector to provide a positive electrical connection between the two wire ends. "Wet" the connector with the hot solder to assure solder flows inside the butt connector thoroughly. Once the solder is cool, then coat the soldered connection with silicone seal (RTV), and while the RTV is still wet, slide heat shrink tubing over the joint and heat the tubing to shrink it down onto the wet RTV. If you have used enough RTV, some will squeeze out of the ends of the heat shrink as it shrinks down onto the wire. This is what you want. Once you have heat shrunk all 16 splices, then let all 16 wires sit undisturbed overnight so the RTV silicone seal fully cures without any voids or air pockets. Following this procedure of crimp, solder, seal will produce a strong, permanent, and weather tight engine harness wire splice. This is how GM does it on their own engine wire harnesses. The only difference is GM uses a UV light curing silicone to speed up the curing cycle.
I will also include a stainless steel bracket to clamp the stock truck MAP sensor down to the aluminum manifold top half. The stock truck manifold uses molded-in clips in the plastic upper manifold half to hold the MAP sensor in place. Using the stainless steel bracket I will provide and a Viton 'O' ring will allow the stock truck MAP sensor to mount and seal to the slightly larger sensor hole bore found on the marine manifold, to keep you from needing to purchase a new MAP sensor when your OEM truck sensor is likely functioning just fine as it is. I will include two slightly different sized "O" rings. Use the larger "O" ring if possible to get the tightest manifold seal. If this "O" ring is too tight, the second "O" ring is one size smaller. One or the other will work.
03-06-2009, 10:19 AM
#3
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Part 2
I will also include some additional fresh stainless steel and plastic hardware parts that you likely need to use when you tear down these used assemblies for cleaning and preparing for your installation into your truck. These include a new schrader valve core and dust cap for the fuel rail. You will need to reuse your stock truck throttle body. However, the gasket for the truck throttle body is integral to the plastic upper truck manifold. Because of this, I will also include a Felpro gasket James B. sourced so you can properly seal the truck throttle body on the marine manifold.
I will also include the necessary fittings to cap off your EGR valve plumbing both on the intake manifold and on the drivers side exhaust manifold. If you want to retain this function, you will have to use a divorced EGR valve set-up from a 1999 - 2003 Gen III truck or similar. You will have to source these components yourself. Others on the board are working to come up with the set of parts and locations to make this work. James B and Stealth97 seem to have taken the lead on this one. Same with the EVAP plumbing. If you do not wish to retain the EGR function, you will need to reprogram your PCM to remove this function to keep from getting error messages. You can have this done easily by most any programmer at the same time you make the necessary changes in your fuel map for the larger injectors.
You will have to source or make your own fuel lines, two of them. One for fuel delivery, the other for the fuel return back to the tank. Both of these fuel lines are of similar diameter (3/8 supply, 5/16 return), construction (3/8 and 5/16 "quick" connections to fuel rail, 16mm and 14mm male "Saganaw"* fittings to the hard fuel lines on the fire wall), and design (brazed steel, not machined aluminum) as those used on the 1997-98 Corvette, Camaro, and Firebird, just a shorter overall length.
*NOTE - "Saganaw" refers to these being the same 16mm and 14mm male threaded "O" ring fittings used on metric GM power steering hoses since the early 1980's.
You can source these locally either new or at a automotive recycler (bone yard) and coil up the extra length, or have these longer fuel lines shortened at most any hydraulic hose repair facility that services hydraulic systems used on things like fork lifts, snow plows, garbage trucks, bobcat (skid steer) loaders, delivery trucks with rear lift gates, farm tractors, power steering, and other vehicles and industrial applications that utilize hydraulic hoses.
GM fuel line part numbers for the first Gen LS1 fuel rail design as used on 1997 Corvette & F-Bodies -
Front Flexible Fuel Line, Supply Side; GM PN 10258441; $15.38
Rail Kit/Parts for Return Fuel Line; GM PN 17113095; $20.52
You can also fabricate fuel lines from a "kit" sold by Pure Choice for LS1 motors installed in non-LS1 vehicles. This is a more expensive solution, but a good looking one.
Here is a link - http://www.performanceplumbing.com/FuelLineKits.html.
This kit comes with 24" stainless steel braided lines that will need to be shortened to length. This kit is $130. I believe Earls has a similar kit for $100, but I do not have information on it. These kits are pricey, and for the few inches of fuel line you will need, I recommend taking a set of OEM LS1 fuel lines to a hydraulic hose repair shop local to you to shorten to length. This can he done at much less cost to you.
By the way, the fuel pressure regulator is located externally on the stainless steel marine fuel rail and is the same regulator as that used on the 97-98 Corvette and F body motors that also have the regulator at the motor. This external marine/corvette/earlyLS1 fuel pressure regulator (FPR) produces the same 58.8 psi (4 bar) fuel pressure as a stock truck regulator, so the rest of your truck fuel delivery system including the in-tank fuel pump will not know the difference. In 1999, GM changed the Corvette and F bodies to a single fuel line intake manifold fuel rail that uses a fuel pressure regulator near the fuel tank, a very different fuel delivery design. LS1's began showing up in truck applications started in 1999. Truck based LS1 motors have always had the single fuel line fuel delivery system.
GM fuel pressure regulator part numbers for the first Gen LS1 fuel rail design as used on 1997 Corvette & F-Bodies - You may want/need to replace the fuel pressure regulator when using a used manifold -
Pressure Regulator; GM PN 17091947; $34.49
Pressure Regulator Vacuum Hose; GM PN 10216948; $2.27
You will need to supply your own manifold to cylinder head gaskets.
You will also need to mount your stock ignition coil differently. "RCFast" has pictures of his solution posted.
You will also need to slightly modify your throttle body linkage to retain the cruise control function, or use a 1" throttle body spacer to gain some clearance. Both approaches have been used successfully, one by "RCFast", the other by "HOG". Pictures of both solutions are posted.
http://www.pacificp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=317
Kit cost is $275 plus shipping.
I am likely forgetting something. Send me a Private Message (PM) if questions.
__________________________________________________ ___________
Taken from the Marine Intake Bible here
http://www.pacificp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=317
The install kit that PECOS sells is excellent. I do suggest it.
peace
Hog
I will also include the necessary fittings to cap off your EGR valve plumbing both on the intake manifold and on the drivers side exhaust manifold. If you want to retain this function, you will have to use a divorced EGR valve set-up from a 1999 - 2003 Gen III truck or similar. You will have to source these components yourself. Others on the board are working to come up with the set of parts and locations to make this work. James B and Stealth97 seem to have taken the lead on this one. Same with the EVAP plumbing. If you do not wish to retain the EGR function, you will need to reprogram your PCM to remove this function to keep from getting error messages. You can have this done easily by most any programmer at the same time you make the necessary changes in your fuel map for the larger injectors.
You will have to source or make your own fuel lines, two of them. One for fuel delivery, the other for the fuel return back to the tank. Both of these fuel lines are of similar diameter (3/8 supply, 5/16 return), construction (3/8 and 5/16 "quick" connections to fuel rail, 16mm and 14mm male "Saganaw"* fittings to the hard fuel lines on the fire wall), and design (brazed steel, not machined aluminum) as those used on the 1997-98 Corvette, Camaro, and Firebird, just a shorter overall length.
*NOTE - "Saganaw" refers to these being the same 16mm and 14mm male threaded "O" ring fittings used on metric GM power steering hoses since the early 1980's.
You can source these locally either new or at a automotive recycler (bone yard) and coil up the extra length, or have these longer fuel lines shortened at most any hydraulic hose repair facility that services hydraulic systems used on things like fork lifts, snow plows, garbage trucks, bobcat (skid steer) loaders, delivery trucks with rear lift gates, farm tractors, power steering, and other vehicles and industrial applications that utilize hydraulic hoses.
GM fuel line part numbers for the first Gen LS1 fuel rail design as used on 1997 Corvette & F-Bodies -
Front Flexible Fuel Line, Supply Side; GM PN 10258441; $15.38
Rail Kit/Parts for Return Fuel Line; GM PN 17113095; $20.52
You can also fabricate fuel lines from a "kit" sold by Pure Choice for LS1 motors installed in non-LS1 vehicles. This is a more expensive solution, but a good looking one.
Here is a link - http://www.performanceplumbing.com/FuelLineKits.html.
This kit comes with 24" stainless steel braided lines that will need to be shortened to length. This kit is $130. I believe Earls has a similar kit for $100, but I do not have information on it. These kits are pricey, and for the few inches of fuel line you will need, I recommend taking a set of OEM LS1 fuel lines to a hydraulic hose repair shop local to you to shorten to length. This can he done at much less cost to you.
By the way, the fuel pressure regulator is located externally on the stainless steel marine fuel rail and is the same regulator as that used on the 97-98 Corvette and F body motors that also have the regulator at the motor. This external marine/corvette/earlyLS1 fuel pressure regulator (FPR) produces the same 58.8 psi (4 bar) fuel pressure as a stock truck regulator, so the rest of your truck fuel delivery system including the in-tank fuel pump will not know the difference. In 1999, GM changed the Corvette and F bodies to a single fuel line intake manifold fuel rail that uses a fuel pressure regulator near the fuel tank, a very different fuel delivery design. LS1's began showing up in truck applications started in 1999. Truck based LS1 motors have always had the single fuel line fuel delivery system.
GM fuel pressure regulator part numbers for the first Gen LS1 fuel rail design as used on 1997 Corvette & F-Bodies - You may want/need to replace the fuel pressure regulator when using a used manifold -
Pressure Regulator; GM PN 17091947; $34.49
Pressure Regulator Vacuum Hose; GM PN 10216948; $2.27
You will need to supply your own manifold to cylinder head gaskets.
You will also need to mount your stock ignition coil differently. "RCFast" has pictures of his solution posted.
You will also need to slightly modify your throttle body linkage to retain the cruise control function, or use a 1" throttle body spacer to gain some clearance. Both approaches have been used successfully, one by "RCFast", the other by "HOG". Pictures of both solutions are posted.
http://www.pacificp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=317
Kit cost is $275 plus shipping.
I am likely forgetting something. Send me a Private Message (PM) if questions.
__________________________________________________ ___________
Taken from the Marine Intake Bible here
http://www.pacificp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=317
The install kit that PECOS sells is excellent. I do suggest it.
peace
Hog
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