unredeemed

iTrader: (2)

While I may not know engineering concepts perhaps as good as you, I do know real world as I've probably been through it.


I've owned a decently quick AWD turbo car for a couple of years, I have taken it apart and back together many a times, tracked it both in the drags, for auto-x and participated in numerous driving schools. I consider my driving ability to be better then average. I still routinely go karting and consistanly have better track times for the day then most.

Time and time again out of the hole I could beat most anyone. I could take a 11 sec viper 3/4 way down the track before he passed me. At that point I was only in the low 13 sec range in the 1/4 mile.

His trap numbers showed all I needed to know 120+ MPH vs my 99-103MPH trap speeds. I may have had a great 60' of 1.6-1.7 vs his 1.9-2.1, my 1/8th mile was quicker although not faster. My buddy's 97 Supra that dyno'd at 400HP/400TQ could never go faster then 12.99 but get this @ 117MPH! ZERO traction in that beast.

Real world as you stated AWD is quicker out of the hole, but on the top end you give up so much in terms of power that your trap speeds reflect it. If I had converted to RWD by modifying my center diff, I could have picked up about 5MPH alone. That says alot right there.

But alas I too loved AWD and wouldn't give it up just for top speed.

However with the right suspension tuning, tires, and driver skill, 2wd is quite capable.(just ask all the camaro owners that smoked me at the drag strip ) But it's hard to argue that out of the box AWD is quite good.

BigBird383

I never disagreed that a 2WD will be faster on the top end then a 4WD vehicle. I don't know what your turbo 4WD vehicle was, but if it was a truck, then the thing keeping the MPH down was not the 4WD, it was the brick like aerodynamics. Just for informations sake, what was that vehicle? All I was really trying to say was that the fun factor, at least for me, is a lot higher in a 4WD street vehicle. And I apologize if my last post seemed at all attacking, it was not intended that way.

'JustDreamin'

Hey Guys...

I've been lurking here for a little while, finally found a thread I felt I could contribute to, and decided to register.


There are a couple of folks running AWD v8 S10s, I just don't have any web links right this second. However, most are running the "classic" small block, or LT1's. I seem to recall a guy with a 406 AWD blazer (I think his screenname was Kramer, but again, can't remember the website).


Sadly, the LS1 into a 4wd doesn't look to be an easy swap. You've got to hack, chop, and weld (and probably a few other things) on the oilpan in order to get it to clear the front differential. Engine mounts and headers are available for a 2wd S10 swap, but not a 4wd swap. Once you actually get the engine in place, then you've got harness / pcm issues to work through, but you'd have those with a 2wd too.

The transfer case most folks have been using for AWD is the BW4472, which came in the Syclones and Typhoons, and the AWD Astros / Safaris (up to 1998) and the Bravada (up to 1997). Its a full mechanical t-case that is always on, and utilizes a viscous coupling to split power front to rear. Later 'Stros and Bravadas used a NP136 auto4x4 box with an electric clutch pack. Both of these T-cases use the 27spline input of the 4L60 trans, making a TH400 / 4L80E swap a little tough. And from what I understand, AWD traction and 4L60's don't seem to last too long. More of a matter of time before it goes south, not a matter of if.


Personally, I'm working on the research / engineering phase of swapping a 6.0l / 4L80e / BW4472 combo into a 2nd gen 4door Blazer or Jimmy. It isn't the lightest body style available (like a RCSB would be), but best suits my needs as a daily driver, and will weigh less than trying to do it with a Tahoe or Suburban.

And as was discussed, the AWD would probably be slower under ideal conditions. However, I rarely get to drive in those kinds of conditions. Roads always seem to be dirty, or wet, or whatever the case may be. Reason I want to get to AWD is I'm tired of having to baby my LT1 M6 camaro around, especially in the rain, going sideways in 4th gear is more exciting than I like (or the wife for that matter).

'Dreamin'

GhettoTy

iTrader: (2)

Dreamin's right, most SyTy guys have gone through at least 3 tranny's. Even a fully built 700R4 can't stand our launches, it's actually the heat that kills them. There have been a few guys try to get a 4L80 into the SyTy's but it's a real pain and really not worth it.

'JustDreamin'

Yeah, the 4L80E isn't the easiest swap. I have heard of 3 or 4 Sy/Ty guys who either had done or were working on doing the swap. Only heard of 1 that was actually running (Robert in Sweden). And there doesn't seem to be any information available about how it was done (what parts they used, how it went together, etc.)

A few more guys have swapped to the TH400. But those are mostly strip only type terrors. I certainly wouldn't think of running w/o overdrive in my daily driver.

The good new is: They aren't (regularly) blowing up T-cases and axles. Most all Sy's and Ty's have or will kill the tranny. And the front propshaft is a ticking time bomb too (but thats an easy fix). Only problems with the Tcases are the chains stretch (usually mileage issues) and the viscous coupling goes (again usually due to mileage). Front axles don't seem to have much issues (except that there aren't any aftermarket parts, like LSD's, available).

'Dreamin'

BADSZ28

iTrader: (39)

Lingenfelter built a Sonoma with there C5-R 427 with TT and AWD that ran 9s on a slipping trans. It was in a magazine a while back. They had to put the radiator in the bed to make room for the intercooler. I think it had a 4L60E in it. It looked bone stock aside from the wheels. I don't recall the awd system but I think it waws from the Astro Van or Bravada.

BADSZ28

iTrader: (39)

This is off there web site:
March 2002 Chevy Hi-Performance Magazine

Title: Stealth S15

Pages 28 - 33 427 CID Twin Turbo Sonoma Truck

No link.

BADSZ28

iTrader: (39)

Here is the article:

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...863/index.html

'JustDreamin'

Yup....Got that article. Magazine is in my "reading room".

I think the tcase Lingenfelter used was from a Denali or C3. One of the viscous units, not the on-demand boxes.

I love the Lingenfelter Sonoma, with the exception of the relocated radiator, and the fact its still got a 4L60E (or 65E) instead of the 80E or 85E. Oh, and the fact that I don't have $132k burning a hole in my pocket. I think similar results could be had with the 6.0l iron block.

'Dreamin'

BADSZ28

iTrader: (39)

Yeah and about 80-100k less. That is if you can turn a wrench.