This is only somewhat true. Granted mandrel bent ceramic coated headers, cold air intakes and freer flowing exhaust do cost more money. But for a company to go from the stock therm to one of a different temp would cost them either very little or nothing at all. If manufactures don't have 160 degree therms it is most likely for a reason i.e. dependability.

 

I think that everyone here has a valid point, for instance the article about convertors being destroyed, Anyone who has looked at ls1 edit knows that on your PE vs. Temp table you run much richer than at normal operating temp, If anyone here has ever used a 4 gas bench or 5 gas you know that enrichening fuel mixture results in an excessive hydrocarbon reading. We all know that hydrocarbons are unburnt fuel. Any body ever seen a cat turn red from a missfire? I have, the missfire causes hydrocarbons to increase excessively killing the cat & O2's. Therefore the argument could be made that lower engine temps would cause a different enrichment table to be implimented & could cause a problem with the convertor.

As well as the discussion about oil temps, GM spent 3 years with a slew of chemists & engineers studying oil degradation, & what common factors could cause it to transpire. now we have the oil life monitoring system which indicates when it is time for an oil change, & we now have customers questioning why the monitor will allow them to go sometimes 7,000 or 8,000 miles before it tells them to have it changed. what is it monitoring? Engine temp, rpm, & drive time. On customers with extended driving times at cruise speeds it will allow much longer intervals because they have proven that this allows more of the moisture & contaminants to be burnt off. does it work? I believe so, we have several fleet customers like aep that have well over 150k with no internal engine work done. So by dropping the the temp by 20 degrees are we really extending engine life? If so how much? do any of us have or intend to have 150k on the clock? So is there a difference between the two that really is benificial?

another example is the cold air kits, I know for a dyno proven fact that these kits alone make no differnence, I have seen dyno test & I mesured my grams per second after installing one. There was no change in airflow with this, the factory box is going to flow just as well as anything else out there with the stock engine componets. As for cold I have measured my IAT temps with a tech 2 here at the dealership & there is no change in IAT. Did I percieve that I had an increase in performance? Yes I did, I could here it as well! But the truth is from a scientific standpoint the numbers do not lie. However after installing the cam I noticed a significant increase in these varibles vs. stock airbox, then installing the exhast components I noticed even more improvement. So it makes sense that these items just compliment the basics.

I get frustrated sometimes because as I write this thread I am just as guilty as everyone else for believing in these products, purchasing them, & installing them. What I have found to be true is that all these items contribute & compliment the basics. I have spent a butload of small money here & there thinking that this would do the trick. But the old addage still holds true, the basics are the best bang for the buck, cam, heads, gears, exhast. Do we really believe that changine the engine temp by 20 or 30 degrees that we are going to be faster than the next guy? These little items are the details that I believe help finish the project out. It is like a house, you can have great trim & fixtures but that is irrelavent if the foundation is weak.

I am not attempting to be condensending either but I believe that the guys who engineer these vehicles know way more about this than we do. Sure we cuss them everyday & call them stupid everytime we work on there vehicles. But I have to hand it to them they are smarter than us in alot of regards. But I see vehicles roll through this dealership every day, I see & have experienced the consequences of our actions & believe that there is alot more to it than what we percieve.

Oh yeah richard, them pcm cuts off the a/c compressor after 5,000 rpms & I cannot find anything in the programming that looks at Engine temp for timing advance. Certainly cooler temps reduce the probability of detonation from occuring, therefore reducing the chance of knock retard from occuring. Are you going to brads in the morning for the dyno tune?

 

Crazy Cutter pretty much said it all. I do to get frustrated on how 85% of bolt on performance parts don't give any horsepower or lose horsepower. Like Crazy Cutter said with cold air kits. The air filter is open right in the engine bay sucking in 200 F degree intake temps, yep that's cold air alright. You have lost HP because of the less dense air. The stock air box is best because it sucks air in from the fender and is usually at 70F when driving.Choosing performance products these days is like picking a needle from a haystack. You have to do a large amount of research on the products to prove it's worthy of your mighty dollar and that it actually works.
Philip S.