Tell me why to shim my converter
02-08-2006, 05:52 PM
#1
Tell me why to shim my converter
Guys,
Where does the common shim to 1/8" flexplate to TC lug dimension come from? I do not understand.
Here is the the clearance I have with my PI verter in the stock transmission I just took out. Although I did not measure it the stocker was about the same. It is 5/16" as measured by the smallest drill bit end I could get in there.
Here are photos of the measurements of PI verter seated into the new FLT tranny I am installing. TC lug to bellhousing at about 1 1/16". I've read it should be 7/8".
Stock TC also at abot 1 1/16" seated in the new tranny.
I also measured the wear mark for the the pump engagement on the PI and stock tranny. Both at about 7mm. You can see it visible in this shot.
I also measured most dimensions of stock TC to PI. They are identical best I can tell. Sorry PI, I cursed you guys a few times.
I have my TC bolts and spacers ready to shim this puppy. I just don't know why other than a lot of people telling me to. The General seems okay with a 5/16" clearance
Where does the common shim to 1/8" flexplate to TC lug dimension come from? I do not understand.
Here is the the clearance I have with my PI verter in the stock transmission I just took out. Although I did not measure it the stocker was about the same. It is 5/16" as measured by the smallest drill bit end I could get in there.
Here are photos of the measurements of PI verter seated into the new FLT tranny I am installing. TC lug to bellhousing at about 1 1/16". I've read it should be 7/8".
Stock TC also at abot 1 1/16" seated in the new tranny.
I also measured the wear mark for the the pump engagement on the PI and stock tranny. Both at about 7mm. You can see it visible in this shot.
I also measured most dimensions of stock TC to PI. They are identical best I can tell. Sorry PI, I cursed you guys a few times.
I have my TC bolts and spacers ready to shim this puppy. I just don't know why other than a lot of people telling me to. The General seems okay with a 5/16" clearance
02-08-2006, 06:17 PM
#2
I would space it out just enough to take up some of the slack not all is needed to be taken out. I have run all my tc's without spacing at all and havent had any problems except for cracking the pump rotor on the first install due to other issues not caused by spacing out the tc. I would put an 1/8th to 1/4 inch spacer int ehre and call it good. Dont want to take it all out though since it can push the pump rotor into the housing.
02-08-2006, 07:12 PM
#4
What is different form the Vigs to a normal performance converter that cause it to need to be shimmed? Mine had about 1/4" of slack that had to be pulled and snugged up with the tc bolts. Still running fine as far as the pump goes but the clutches are another story
02-08-2006, 07:23 PM
#5
Originally Posted by 99Silver6.0
You only want that converter to come so far out of the tranny. Too far and it can disengage from the front pump! Vigs seem to be the only verters that need a shim. I shimmed mine and its still doing what its supposed to.
02-08-2006, 07:25 PM
#6
Originally Posted by 1slow01Z71
What is different form the Vigs to a normal performance converter that cause it to need to be shimmed? Mine had about 1/4" of slack that had to be pulled and snugged up with the tc bolts. Still running fine as far as the pump goes but the clutches are another story
02-08-2006, 07:27 PM
#7
From what I have read, I think the critical factor is not to pull the TC out of the trans more than 1/8" to prevent pump damage or a TC wobble. I had the same 5/16" spacing, used 3/16" of spacers = I pulled the TC out 1/8".
Say you stand the 2 TCs on their shafts and measure from the floor to the mounting face of one of the feet/lugs, are they both the same in that dimension? In the pic, when you measured them on the trans it didn't look like the ruler was against the mounting face of the lug. Is that what you measured? On the trans, the stock TC is supposed to be 1 1/8" to the edge of the bell housing.
Looks to me like that extra step on the stock TCs mounting lugs would be about equal to the extra spacing with the Vig.
PI instructions:
http://www.converter.com/book_install.htm
Say you stand the 2 TCs on their shafts and measure from the floor to the mounting face of one of the feet/lugs, are they both the same in that dimension? In the pic, when you measured them on the trans it didn't look like the ruler was against the mounting face of the lug. Is that what you measured? On the trans, the stock TC is supposed to be 1 1/8" to the edge of the bell housing.
Looks to me like that extra step on the stock TCs mounting lugs would be about equal to the extra spacing with the Vig.
PI instructions:
http://www.converter.com/book_install.htm
Trending Topics
02-08-2006, 07:36 PM
#8
Originally Posted by KySilverado
If the vig comes out of the pump to far, so does the stocker. The fourth pic down shows the wear mark from the engagement. The wear marks are the same length on the stocker. I understand your statement and the logic. I'm just saying that by shimming it I will be putting it into the pump further than GM has done.
02-08-2006, 07:40 PM
#9
Originally Posted by DrX
From what I have read, I think the critical factor is not to pull the TC out of the trans more than 1/8" to prevent pump damage or a TC wobble. I had the same 5/16" spacing, used 3/16" of spacers = I pulled the TC out 1/8".
Say you stand the 2 TCs on their shafts and measure from the floor to the mounting face of one of the feet/lugs, are they both the same in that dimension? In the pic, when you measured them on the trans it didn't look like the ruler was against the mounting face of the lug. Is that what you measured? On the trans, the stock TC is supposed to be 1 1/8" to the edge of the bell housing.
Looks to me like that extra step on the stock TCs mounting lugs would be about equal to the extra spacing with the Vig.
PI instructions:
http://www.converter.com/book_install.htm
Say you stand the 2 TCs on their shafts and measure from the floor to the mounting face of one of the feet/lugs, are they both the same in that dimension? In the pic, when you measured them on the trans it didn't look like the ruler was against the mounting face of the lug. Is that what you measured? On the trans, the stock TC is supposed to be 1 1/8" to the edge of the bell housing.
Looks to me like that extra step on the stock TCs mounting lugs would be about equal to the extra spacing with the Vig.
PI instructions:
http://www.converter.com/book_install.htm
02-08-2006, 08:18 PM
#10
Originally Posted by DrX
From what I have read, I think the critical factor is not to pull the TC out of the trans more than 1/8" to prevent pump damage or a TC wobble. I had the same 5/16" spacing, used 3/16" of spacers = I pulled the TC out 1/8".
Say you stand the 2 TCs on their shafts and measure from the floor to the mounting face of one of the feet/lugs, are they both the same in that dimension? In the pic, when you measured them on the trans it didn't look like the ruler was against the mounting face of the lug. Is that what you measured? On the trans, the stock TC is supposed to be 1 1/8" to the edge of the bell housing.
Looks to me like that extra step on the stock TCs mounting lugs would be about equal to the extra spacing with the Vig.
PI instructions:
http://www.converter.com/book_install.htm
Say you stand the 2 TCs on their shafts and measure from the floor to the mounting face of one of the feet/lugs, are they both the same in that dimension? In the pic, when you measured them on the trans it didn't look like the ruler was against the mounting face of the lug. Is that what you measured? On the trans, the stock TC is supposed to be 1 1/8" to the edge of the bell housing.
Looks to me like that extra step on the stock TCs mounting lugs would be about equal to the extra spacing with the Vig.
PI instructions:
http://www.converter.com/book_install.htm
The only difference I really see in the two converters are 1> The pump engagement lugs are a bit deeper than the stocker. 2> From the end of the part that slips into the crank to the flexplate lug is a bit longer on the VIG compared to the stocker. Both of these would allow the verter to be seated a little deeper into the trans I think. I'm thinking shimming a bit would not hurt especially if it trues it up a bit on the pump and minimizes the wobble you mentioned. I don not believe it is absolutely necessary though.
Funny thing is, the feedback from PI after sending in the verter for a look was, and I'm paraphrasing, do not shim the converter (It never has been), we can tell that the verter has been into the transmission to far! Look at your pump rotor, that is what is probably making the noise. I can say with an absolute certainty that the verter has never been into the tranny to far unless it did so under hard acceleration or something. During the tranny install it never touched the flexplate.