6L80/6L90 Bolt in kit
09-30-2010, 10:44 PM
#31
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also add in , harness wiring. driveshafts and possibly modification of the cross member.
you can find some decent deals on the trans and case's but certain parts cant be clisted . minumum it will cost is probably 6k . which isnt too bad when i price a fully built 4l80e swap it was 5k+
you can find some decent deals on the trans and case's but certain parts cant be clisted . minumum it will cost is probably 6k . which isnt too bad when i price a fully built 4l80e swap it was 5k+
09-30-2010, 10:46 PM
#32
Only problem is you dont need a fully built 80e and youre comparing a fully built 80e build to a stock 6l80e build. Shift kit 80es last to 1000rwhp all the time and stock or even built 6l80es are doing good to last any real amount of time at 600rwhp levels. You can do a 4wd 80e swap for 1600 bucks including the price of the trans.
This swap is obviously for people who really want to the cool factor, Ill spend the saved money on making more power to overcome the gearing
This swap is obviously for people who really want to the cool factor, Ill spend the saved money on making more power to overcome the gearing
09-30-2010, 10:47 PM
#33
I read it as the wiring harness is included, youd need crossmember modifications and driveshafts. Youll have to check and see if the 2000 computer can communicate with the VSS in the new style tcase. Dont know that anyone has attempted that swap yet.
09-30-2010, 10:52 PM
#34
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On the site and stated in here its been sayd they are working on making the 6l80 work with the 24x reluctor wheel on the crank. If i need to change computers I have no problem doing that. I'd love for my my turbo truck to have a 6 speed auto even if i have to limit it to 600fwhp.
10-01-2010, 01:44 PM
#35
Launching!
Thread Starter
Clarification
Let me clear up a few things and a lot of internet misinformation/folklore about the 6L80/90.
First, we did NOT need to change the crossmember on the GMT360 because the 6L80 transmission is actually shorter than a 4L70. 4L80's require new crossmembers because they are longer than 4L70's.
Secondly, our interface module system will include all that necessary to plug & play. Gen III PCM based full size trucks and LS1 engines will require an upgrade to an E40. However, we will offer a plug & play system, when we get to that stage of R&D. So that will mean minimum wiring reconfigurations under the hood.
Thirdly, full size trucks have the advantage over GMT360's because your transfer cases carried over in generations. Therefore, GM already offers and sells the connecting adapters over the counter to transfer a 4L70 4WD transfer cases to a 6L80 transmission.
Lastly, while the 4L80 is undeniably the best transmission to put a lot of power in front of (if you already have big power), it is not due to the fact that it is indestructible. It's strength comes at a tremendous sacrifice to acceleration and fuel economy as it essentially acts as a torque limiting management for the drivetrain. Simple comparisons of gear ratios show that the main reason the 4L80 can withstand so much power is because is has less torque multiplication...hence the old comment that it 'saps power'.
As you can see from the attachment, the 4L80 offers the LEAST amount of torque multiplication. That is why changes to torque converter and final drive ratios are ESSENTIAL to going faster once a swap is performed. It is also why you MUST to have insane amounts of power to go fast with a 4L80
The point and benefit of the 6L80/90 is that you have a transmission that is stronger than a 4L60/65/70, with better spaced gears like a 4L80 (that 1st to 2nd RPM drop is painful in a 4L70), and double overdrive...in a shorter case. So you don't need expensive engine mods to go fast AND get decent fuel economy.
The attached chart shows in the upper area how identically powered and final ratio geared Trailblazer SS's will generate different multiplied torque product to the wheel. The lower area shows how much more power the engine would have to make in order for the 4L70 and 4L80 to match the 'average' forward gear torque of the 6L80/90.
First, we did NOT need to change the crossmember on the GMT360 because the 6L80 transmission is actually shorter than a 4L70. 4L80's require new crossmembers because they are longer than 4L70's.
Secondly, our interface module system will include all that necessary to plug & play. Gen III PCM based full size trucks and LS1 engines will require an upgrade to an E40. However, we will offer a plug & play system, when we get to that stage of R&D. So that will mean minimum wiring reconfigurations under the hood.
Thirdly, full size trucks have the advantage over GMT360's because your transfer cases carried over in generations. Therefore, GM already offers and sells the connecting adapters over the counter to transfer a 4L70 4WD transfer cases to a 6L80 transmission.
Lastly, while the 4L80 is undeniably the best transmission to put a lot of power in front of (if you already have big power), it is not due to the fact that it is indestructible. It's strength comes at a tremendous sacrifice to acceleration and fuel economy as it essentially acts as a torque limiting management for the drivetrain. Simple comparisons of gear ratios show that the main reason the 4L80 can withstand so much power is because is has less torque multiplication...hence the old comment that it 'saps power'.
As you can see from the attachment, the 4L80 offers the LEAST amount of torque multiplication. That is why changes to torque converter and final drive ratios are ESSENTIAL to going faster once a swap is performed. It is also why you MUST to have insane amounts of power to go fast with a 4L80
The point and benefit of the 6L80/90 is that you have a transmission that is stronger than a 4L60/65/70, with better spaced gears like a 4L80 (that 1st to 2nd RPM drop is painful in a 4L70), and double overdrive...in a shorter case. So you don't need expensive engine mods to go fast AND get decent fuel economy.
The attached chart shows in the upper area how identically powered and final ratio geared Trailblazer SS's will generate different multiplied torque product to the wheel. The lower area shows how much more power the engine would have to make in order for the 4L70 and 4L80 to match the 'average' forward gear torque of the 6L80/90.
Last edited by TrueBlueGTO; 10-01-2010 at 02:21 PM.
10-01-2010, 02:20 PM
#37
... At any rate, because we already had pre-TCM failure temporary success we're moving forward with ramping up production of parts, mainly to have something to offer for SEMA.
The website has been updated and will have video posted as soon as the new TCM is put in.
http://www.tbmsport.com/6l80egm6spdc...omponents.html
The website has been updated and will have video posted as soon as the new TCM is put in.
http://www.tbmsport.com/6l80egm6spdc...omponents.html
I don't have the time to check this out right now, but hope to in the next few days. I browsed it, but want to in greater detail. I instantly went lookin for price, & I'm sure (as posts indicate too) others are too.
i agree it is expensive but those parts are necessary to run this setup . i just wish there was a way to have the 6l90 hold 1200 tq. id be all over this.
also are these gears for only the 4wd t-case ? do you also make them for the awd t case such as the SSS nvg-149?
...also add in , harness wiring. driveshafts and possibly modification of the cross member.
you can find some decent deals on the trans and case's but certain parts cant be clisted . minumum it will cost is probably 6k . which isnt too bad when i price a fully built 4l80e swap it was 5k+
also are these gears for only the 4wd t-case ? do you also make them for the awd t case such as the SSS nvg-149?
...also add in , harness wiring. driveshafts and possibly modification of the cross member.
you can find some decent deals on the trans and case's but certain parts cant be clisted . minumum it will cost is probably 6k . which isnt too bad when i price a fully built 4l80e swap it was 5k+
When I start seeing some GMT800 truck info, I'll start gettin more interested.
Only problem is you dont need a fully built 80e and youre comparing a fully built 80e build to a stock 6l80e build. Shift kit 80es last to 1000rwhp all the time and stock or even built 6l80es are doing good to last any real amount of time at 600rwhp levels. You can do a 4wd 80e swap for 1600 bucks including the price of the trans.
This swap is obviously for people who really want to the cool factor, ...
This swap is obviously for people who really want to the cool factor, ...
10-01-2010, 02:34 PM
#38
Launching!
Thread Starter
No clue on E40. I would like to target a $350-400 additional cost for the E40, base program, and harness. Factoring in new knock sensors, DBW pedal, and DBW throttle body will obviously bump it up more. Hence, the goal is to offer it as one discount package to bring each per part cost down.
Once we get you GMT800 GMT800 PCM squared on the ECM harness, RWD guys have will need to get a lengthened driveshaft if they go with a 6L80E. You MIGHT be able to get away with keeping your driveshaft if you go 6L90E b/c it's longer than a 6L80 and may be around the same length of a RWD 4L70. Depending on what transmission you already have you'll have to switch out the yoke (e.g. 27 spline to 32). I don't have any concrete info on the RWD interchangeability as our trucks were 4WD/AWD and I knew they would be a more difficult challenge, so I tackled them first.
Once we get you GMT800 GMT800 PCM squared on the ECM harness, RWD guys have will need to get a lengthened driveshaft if they go with a 6L80E. You MIGHT be able to get away with keeping your driveshaft if you go 6L90E b/c it's longer than a 6L80 and may be around the same length of a RWD 4L70. Depending on what transmission you already have you'll have to switch out the yoke (e.g. 27 spline to 32). I don't have any concrete info on the RWD interchangeability as our trucks were 4WD/AWD and I knew they would be a more difficult challenge, so I tackled them first.
10-01-2010, 04:32 PM
#40
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So this is a bit of a dumb question, but despite the double overdrive gears in the 6L80E, are the gear ratios closer than on the 4L60 or 80E? I hate how my truck falls on it's face with every gear (I'm exaggerating a bit, but closer gears would make it faster). On the other hand, my ol' lady's IS250 Lexus has NO POWER but a trans with tight gears that actually maximizes the engine enough to make a slower car...adequate.
I guess what I'm asking is, will the 6L80E swap tighten up the ratios so there's not quite so large of a gap between gears? If so, count me in, I'll forgo the 4L80E swap for this since I don't see myself getting over the 500 WHP mark.
Also, any updates? My truck in question is a RCSB '03 Silverado with a Radix.
I guess what I'm asking is, will the 6L80E swap tighten up the ratios so there's not quite so large of a gap between gears? If so, count me in, I'll forgo the 4L80E swap for this since I don't see myself getting over the 500 WHP mark.
Also, any updates? My truck in question is a RCSB '03 Silverado with a Radix.