Turbo Quadra Yetikon
Jul 31, 2014 | 05:03 PM
#1
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Teching In
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Turbo Quadra Yetikon
OK, it’s a **** poor project name, but nonetheless here’s the pitch.
Looking for some direction and feedback on a turbo and supporting components for a 2003 Yukon XL 2500, 6.0L / 4L80E, 4wd, 4.10 gears, and Quadrasteer. Obviously the objective with this “land yacht” is not to break any speed / power records, but rather have a modest increase in power / torque for light towing, conquering the mountain passes here in Montana, and otherwise commuting.
What I have sitting around from old projects:
• MP T76 P-trim with .96 A/R turbine housing
• (2) Tial 38mm WG’s
• (1) Tial 50mm BOV’s
• Various injectors; a set from a GT500 (47 lb/hr @ 39 psi) , Ford Racing 80’s (overkill)
• MSD Fuel Pump Voltage Booster
What I’d like to acquire:
• KB Racing hot side kit
• Intercooler and ducting that fits well (KB mentioned that the 2500 frame is different and some of pipes would not fit properly, nor are they set up for a clutch fan)
• Misc. tidbits required for installation
So, I’m not a spring-chicken in regards to DIY turbo kit builds, but this is my first GM kit. Main questions would be:
• Is a T76 P-trim overkill? I was thinking more like a T64 or T70 with .81 a/r exhaust housing. I don’t want a lazy turbo, the intention is to get the wheel moving quickly……and feed a 6.0L at the end of the day, perhaps 6-8 psi of boost.
• Will the Tial 38mm WG divert enough exhaust if I’m only looking to create 6-8 psi of boost?
• What intercooler fits / functions best on a 2500 platform (I believe I have a 34” radiator? and some differences in the frame)
• I intend to use an LS7 MAF and incorporate the MAF flange on straight section of the charge pipe. This would be somewhere between the intercooler outlet and TB. Does my 512 g/s limited ECM have enough range to support 6-8 psi of airflow? Does the pipe need to be 80, 85, or 90mm to ensure I don’t hamper the range I do have.
• I do intend to utilize a MAF, especially if my PCM and MAF have enough range to support the desired airflow / power level.
Looking for some direction and feedback on a turbo and supporting components for a 2003 Yukon XL 2500, 6.0L / 4L80E, 4wd, 4.10 gears, and Quadrasteer. Obviously the objective with this “land yacht” is not to break any speed / power records, but rather have a modest increase in power / torque for light towing, conquering the mountain passes here in Montana, and otherwise commuting.
What I have sitting around from old projects:
• MP T76 P-trim with .96 A/R turbine housing
• (2) Tial 38mm WG’s
• (1) Tial 50mm BOV’s
• Various injectors; a set from a GT500 (47 lb/hr @ 39 psi) , Ford Racing 80’s (overkill)
• MSD Fuel Pump Voltage Booster
What I’d like to acquire:
• KB Racing hot side kit
• Intercooler and ducting that fits well (KB mentioned that the 2500 frame is different and some of pipes would not fit properly, nor are they set up for a clutch fan)
• Misc. tidbits required for installation
So, I’m not a spring-chicken in regards to DIY turbo kit builds, but this is my first GM kit. Main questions would be:
• Is a T76 P-trim overkill? I was thinking more like a T64 or T70 with .81 a/r exhaust housing. I don’t want a lazy turbo, the intention is to get the wheel moving quickly……and feed a 6.0L at the end of the day, perhaps 6-8 psi of boost.
• Will the Tial 38mm WG divert enough exhaust if I’m only looking to create 6-8 psi of boost?
• What intercooler fits / functions best on a 2500 platform (I believe I have a 34” radiator? and some differences in the frame)
• I intend to use an LS7 MAF and incorporate the MAF flange on straight section of the charge pipe. This would be somewhere between the intercooler outlet and TB. Does my 512 g/s limited ECM have enough range to support 6-8 psi of airflow? Does the pipe need to be 80, 85, or 90mm to ensure I don’t hamper the range I do have.
• I do intend to utilize a MAF, especially if my PCM and MAF have enough range to support the desired airflow / power level.
Dec 2, 2014 | 10:09 AM
#2
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 33
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After a few months of on again - off again research, and procuring a few parts, I'm still on the fence in regards to a turbo. Again, the intent is commuting, mixed grade / mountain passes up to 10k+ feet above sea level, and occasional towing up to 7,000 lbs.
Seems that some guys are very fond of using the BW T6 based turbos, with what seems to me excessively large exhaust turbines? I think I understand the logic here, where the desired result is a moderate / progressive approach to building cylinder pressure, and having plenty of exhaust wheel to keep back pressure in check. If I'm dead set against using a T6 based turbo, then what T4 based turbo would you select? T67 or T70 with .96 P-trim, or would a Q-trim be better suited for my needs?
Seems that some guys are very fond of using the BW T6 based turbos, with what seems to me excessively large exhaust turbines? I think I understand the logic here, where the desired result is a moderate / progressive approach to building cylinder pressure, and having plenty of exhaust wheel to keep back pressure in check. If I'm dead set against using a T6 based turbo, then what T4 based turbo would you select? T67 or T70 with .96 P-trim, or would a Q-trim be better suited for my needs?
Dec 2, 2014 | 12:36 PM
#3
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,282
Likes: 438
From: Huntsville, AL
So in general, dont be afraid of boost. In fact, the more boost the better! As boost goes up, so does volumetric efficiency and density (as long as you have a decent intercooler). The downside is more boost requires more drive pressure on the exhaust side, but there is a pretty flat range where you get a lot more return on investment (hp per lb of boost) right in the middle of the compressor map, between 6 and 18ish psi and 2000-6000 engine rpm.
So what im saying is dont shoot for "6-8psi" shoot for a power goal. A 50mm turbo will probably make 40psi of boost on a 6l, but not much power. An 94mm turbo will make the same power at probably 4psi of boost.
I would normally recommend a blower for this type of thing, but turbos are uniquely capable in dealing with altitude variations by design, so they work very good for this.
My suggest is to use the one you have, its free and sized fine, and dont be afraid to let it go to 12psi or so. If you want to invest in a good intercooler (maybe air to water) you could easily do 15psi on pump gas if you are gentle with the timing and let the turbo do the work.
You dont have to have one of the big borgs with the big turbines, those are for race type situtations or very large engines (think 18 wheelers).
I doubt the MAF would support your power levels, they dont have much range left in them.
So what im saying is dont shoot for "6-8psi" shoot for a power goal. A 50mm turbo will probably make 40psi of boost on a 6l, but not much power. An 94mm turbo will make the same power at probably 4psi of boost.
I would normally recommend a blower for this type of thing, but turbos are uniquely capable in dealing with altitude variations by design, so they work very good for this.
My suggest is to use the one you have, its free and sized fine, and dont be afraid to let it go to 12psi or so. If you want to invest in a good intercooler (maybe air to water) you could easily do 15psi on pump gas if you are gentle with the timing and let the turbo do the work.
You dont have to have one of the big borgs with the big turbines, those are for race type situtations or very large engines (think 18 wheelers).
I doubt the MAF would support your power levels, they dont have much range left in them.
Dec 2, 2014 | 01:30 PM
#4
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2006
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So in general, dont be afraid of boost. In fact, the more boost the better! As boost goes up, so does volumetric efficiency and density (as long as you have a decent intercooler). The downside is more boost requires more drive pressure on the exhaust side, but there is a pretty flat range where you get a lot more return on investment (hp per lb of boost) right in the middle of the compressor map, between 6 and 18ish psi and 2000-6000 engine rpm.
So what im saying is dont shoot for "6-8psi" shoot for a power goal. A 50mm turbo will probably make 40psi of boost on a 6l, but not much power. An 94mm turbo will make the same power at probably 4psi of boost.
I would normally recommend a blower for this type of thing, but turbos are uniquely capable in dealing with altitude variations by design, so they work very good for this.
My suggest is to use the one you have, its free and sized fine, and dont be afraid to let it go to 12psi or so. If you want to invest in a good intercooler (maybe air to water) you could easily do 15psi on pump gas if you are gentle with the timing and let the turbo do the work.
You dont have to have one of the big borgs with the big turbines, those are for race type situtations or very large engines (think 18 wheelers).
I doubt the MAF would support your power levels, they dont have much range left in them.
So what im saying is dont shoot for "6-8psi" shoot for a power goal. A 50mm turbo will probably make 40psi of boost on a 6l, but not much power. An 94mm turbo will make the same power at probably 4psi of boost.
I would normally recommend a blower for this type of thing, but turbos are uniquely capable in dealing with altitude variations by design, so they work very good for this.
My suggest is to use the one you have, its free and sized fine, and dont be afraid to let it go to 12psi or so. If you want to invest in a good intercooler (maybe air to water) you could easily do 15psi on pump gas if you are gentle with the timing and let the turbo do the work.
You dont have to have one of the big borgs with the big turbines, those are for race type situtations or very large engines (think 18 wheelers).
I doubt the MAF would support your power levels, they dont have much range left in them.
Historically I have not been afraid of boost on my "home-brew turbo systems", even on 100k+ mile engines
I like your perspective and will certainly keep that in mind. You're right, I shouldn't been targeting "6-8 psi", so with that being said 450 rwhp should be a reasonable / modest target.Do you think this intercooler, hung vertically, will fit well? The end tanks would be left side / right side, with the inlet / outlet facing down. If not, what would package nicely on a 2500 w/o cutting things up?
cxracing.com: CXRacing Intercooler 79-93 Fox Body Ford Mustang V8 5.0 3.5" Core
In regards to the S/C, I have a perfectly good / reliable Roush TVS1900 kit that I enjoyed on my 2010 Silverado CC 4wd 5.3L truck, and heck, it will almost install itself on this Yukon XL 2500.....but....for this application I want to be turbocharged. The TVS kit will live to see another day on a different application.
Dec 2, 2014 | 01:53 PM
#5
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,282
Likes: 438
From: Huntsville, AL
Something like this would probably be easier to fit: cxracing.com: Front Mount Intercooler 31"x12"x3", 3" Core: 24"x12"x3", 3" Inlet & Outlet, Many Applications
I have the bigger version of this one on my 99, which has far less room than your truck. You may need to trim the plastic around the radiator, but if that is a big deal I would reconsider a turbo project
100k+ engines are actually better able to deal with boost because the rings have opened up some
I have the bigger version of this one on my 99, which has far less room than your truck. You may need to trim the plastic around the radiator, but if that is a big deal I would reconsider a turbo project
100k+ engines are actually better able to deal with boost because the rings have opened up some
Dec 10, 2014 | 02:04 PM
#6
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 33
Likes: 15
A couple other questions if I may.....I'm all "searched out".
Fuel System > I believe I have a return style fuel system? What's my best option in regards to fuel supply, ie. higher capacity pump. I also believe my rig has 2 fuel tanks, where one is above the spare tire and feeds the primary tank, which is responsible for feeding the rail?
Oil return > assuming it's a major PITA to remove the pan from a 4wd version and drill / tap or weld a return fitting, then I'm left with having to do this while it's still in the vehicle (drill / tap) Uni-bit or drill bit? Best location?
PCV > reading threads like this make my head spin https://www.performancetrucks.net/fo...0/#post4482445
Still not sure what the hot ticket is?
Fuel System > I believe I have a return style fuel system? What's my best option in regards to fuel supply, ie. higher capacity pump. I also believe my rig has 2 fuel tanks, where one is above the spare tire and feeds the primary tank, which is responsible for feeding the rail?
Oil return > assuming it's a major PITA to remove the pan from a 4wd version and drill / tap or weld a return fitting, then I'm left with having to do this while it's still in the vehicle (drill / tap) Uni-bit or drill bit? Best location?
PCV > reading threads like this make my head spin https://www.performancetrucks.net/fo...0/#post4482445
Still not sure what the hot ticket is?
Dec 10, 2014 | 11:05 PM
#7
You have 1 fuel tank. Likely either a 24-26 gallon or a 35 gallon tank. The things above the spare tire are part of EVAP system.
Look at your fuel rail to be sure what you have for return. If only 1 line and no pressure regulator on the side it's a returnless fuel system. I think it's returnless based on year.
Pump, you have options. 250 walbro, 320 or even a 450. Pick one based off of how much power you want to make in the future.
Look at your fuel rail to be sure what you have for return. If only 1 line and no pressure regulator on the side it's a returnless fuel system. I think it's returnless based on year.
Pump, you have options. 250 walbro, 320 or even a 450. Pick one based off of how much power you want to make in the future.
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Dec 11, 2014 | 07:06 AM
#8
Thread Starter
Teching In
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 33
Likes: 15
When I get back from a trade show (PRI), I'll inspect a bit further on the fuel rail and tank setup.
Not positive, but I've seena fair bit of chatter, some real pics, and otherwise that supports I have 2 tanks. I can usually fill 36-38 gallons when the gauge is low.
Found this post:
http://z71tahoe-suburban.com/iboard/lofiversion/index.php?t35006.html
Also have some pics somewhere from a guy who put "access panels" (ie cut through the body) in the floor to allow easier service on the fuel system.
Not positive, but I've seena fair bit of chatter, some real pics, and otherwise that supports I have 2 tanks. I can usually fill 36-38 gallons when the gauge is low.
Found this post:
http://z71tahoe-suburban.com/iboard/lofiversion/index.php?t35006.html
Also have some pics somewhere from a guy who put "access panels" (ie cut through the body) in the floor to allow easier service on the fuel system.
Dec 11, 2014 | 03:26 PM
#10
Welp, this isnt the first time I've been wrong. But it looks like you have a bigger tank that I thought they came with, it holds 38.5 gallons which does explain why it has 2 parts to the tank and 2 fuel pumps.
If you look at the second pump, it only has 1 line coming out of it. So all it does it pour fuel back into the big tank. So you'd only need to worry about the first pump for fuel flow.
If you look at the second pump, it only has 1 line coming out of it. So all it does it pour fuel back into the big tank. So you'd only need to worry about the first pump for fuel flow.
