Planned build ideas
03-13-2022, 01:10 PM
#1
On The Tree
Thread Starter
Planned build ideas
I would like some input on a planned engine build for my 2011 Silverado. It's a standard cab short bed, currently has 97,500 on it. It is currently all stock with 4.8 and 4L60e. 10 bolt open rear with 3.15 gears. This truck isn't a daily driver, but it does get driven long distance sometimes, so drivability and durability are important. We routinely go back and forth from NJ to TN and occasionally go as far as Houston, TX and FL. I towed a 6x12 U-Haul enclosed trailer to TN and back just a couple of weeks ago, though towing is not its normal role. I also towed an open motorcycle trailer to FL with it. I've owned this truck since 2012 and those are the only two times it's towed anything; in fact, I built the trailer hitch for it specifically for the FL trip (it has a roll pan in the rear, so a standard hitch wouldn't fit). This truck badly needs more power.
I have two different ideas on what to do with this truck. Both ideas include a supercharger. I'm pretty sold on the Whipple twin screw setup for a couple of reasons. One, I like the twin screw design theory better than the centrifugal supercharger. And I also like the clean and compact installation. On top of that, I like the looks of it; it's very reminiscent of a Roots type blower, which, in my opinion are super cool. Either option will include long tube headers. And either way it will get tuned at East Coast Supercharging (which is very close to my house). I think I'm going to put a Yukon Duragrip limited slip diff in it, but probably keep the long legged 3.15 gears.
One idea is: Freshen up the 4.8 with forged pistons, a blower cam, some head porting and a Whipple supercharger kit for the 4.8. I think this is a 1.9l supercharger. It's designed for a stone stock motor, but I would think it would benefit from the blower cam and head work. I spoke to one of Whipple's tech support people on the phone the other day asking for a blower cam recommendation, and got nothing helpful. He said their kits are designed to work with the stock motor with zero modifications. I would love to hear suggestions on cam choice (I'll call Comp Cams and inquire about this as well) as well as static compression ratio or any other suggestions. I've never built a blower motor before. I did talk to American Racing Headers about appropriate headers for this application and they were pretty helpful. Their suggestion was 1-3/4" tubes for under 10psi boost. ECS said they'd likely set it up at 8lbs, so 1-3/4" would be the choice here.
The other idea is more radical. I have a spare 6.0 motor from my 2003 Silverado work truck. I'm thinking about - and this is really what I think I want to do - building a 408 from this using an Eagle 4" stroker kit. I'd get the later cam cover and run the later style cam with cam sensor in the front, a 58x reluctor wheel on the crank and get the knock sensor relocation kit so I can run the Gen IV knock sensors in the Gen IV location (or as close to it as the adapter kit permits). In this case, I'd get the Whipple kit for the 6.0 but substitute the larger 2.9l supercharger. According to the Whipple tech guy, I'd have to machine the alternator bracket somehow to accommodate the larger supercharger, and going this route would exclude appropriate injectors, since their kits are designed to work with stock motors exclusively. So I'd be on my own as far as fuel system upgrades go. In this case, I expect I'd run 1-7/8" headers. With this option, most likely I'd build the motor and run it NA initially, adding the supercharger later (though not necessarily; it would be nice to do the alternator bracket mods or fabrication while it's on the engine stand, and drop the whole thing in as a completed unit).
The downfalls I see to the 408 idea are:
- Probably terrible gas mileage, which will matter when driving to TN, TX and FL. This truck is pretty comfortable to travel in, and I want to keep it that way.
- Obviously quite a bit more expensive, though not absurdly so
The positives I see with this idea are:
- I could run less boost and have gobs more power than the 4.8, which I would think would contribute to longevity
- More power throughout the RPM range
- Maybe the gas mileage wouldn't be as hideous as I think??? Because it would be a powerful motor moving a lightweight truck and not working real hard to do it? Probably a pipe dream.
Downfalls to the 4.8 idea:
- it's possible to be disappointed with the power level while keeping the boost level safe
Advantage to the 4.8:
- Likely better gas mileage? Though it isn't very impressive in this regard in stock form. Best I ever got with it was 16 mpg.
Maybe I should have posted this in the Projects thread, but as it's a supercharger project either way, I this seemed the appropriate place. Please let's have some input! Shoot holes in one or both ideas, tell me what you think would be the better option and I'd love some specific recommendations regarding cam and compression ratio as well as fuel system.
I have two different ideas on what to do with this truck. Both ideas include a supercharger. I'm pretty sold on the Whipple twin screw setup for a couple of reasons. One, I like the twin screw design theory better than the centrifugal supercharger. And I also like the clean and compact installation. On top of that, I like the looks of it; it's very reminiscent of a Roots type blower, which, in my opinion are super cool. Either option will include long tube headers. And either way it will get tuned at East Coast Supercharging (which is very close to my house). I think I'm going to put a Yukon Duragrip limited slip diff in it, but probably keep the long legged 3.15 gears.
One idea is: Freshen up the 4.8 with forged pistons, a blower cam, some head porting and a Whipple supercharger kit for the 4.8. I think this is a 1.9l supercharger. It's designed for a stone stock motor, but I would think it would benefit from the blower cam and head work. I spoke to one of Whipple's tech support people on the phone the other day asking for a blower cam recommendation, and got nothing helpful. He said their kits are designed to work with the stock motor with zero modifications. I would love to hear suggestions on cam choice (I'll call Comp Cams and inquire about this as well) as well as static compression ratio or any other suggestions. I've never built a blower motor before. I did talk to American Racing Headers about appropriate headers for this application and they were pretty helpful. Their suggestion was 1-3/4" tubes for under 10psi boost. ECS said they'd likely set it up at 8lbs, so 1-3/4" would be the choice here.
The other idea is more radical. I have a spare 6.0 motor from my 2003 Silverado work truck. I'm thinking about - and this is really what I think I want to do - building a 408 from this using an Eagle 4" stroker kit. I'd get the later cam cover and run the later style cam with cam sensor in the front, a 58x reluctor wheel on the crank and get the knock sensor relocation kit so I can run the Gen IV knock sensors in the Gen IV location (or as close to it as the adapter kit permits). In this case, I'd get the Whipple kit for the 6.0 but substitute the larger 2.9l supercharger. According to the Whipple tech guy, I'd have to machine the alternator bracket somehow to accommodate the larger supercharger, and going this route would exclude appropriate injectors, since their kits are designed to work with stock motors exclusively. So I'd be on my own as far as fuel system upgrades go. In this case, I expect I'd run 1-7/8" headers. With this option, most likely I'd build the motor and run it NA initially, adding the supercharger later (though not necessarily; it would be nice to do the alternator bracket mods or fabrication while it's on the engine stand, and drop the whole thing in as a completed unit).
The downfalls I see to the 408 idea are:
- Probably terrible gas mileage, which will matter when driving to TN, TX and FL. This truck is pretty comfortable to travel in, and I want to keep it that way.
- Obviously quite a bit more expensive, though not absurdly so
The positives I see with this idea are:
- I could run less boost and have gobs more power than the 4.8, which I would think would contribute to longevity
- More power throughout the RPM range
- Maybe the gas mileage wouldn't be as hideous as I think??? Because it would be a powerful motor moving a lightweight truck and not working real hard to do it? Probably a pipe dream.
Downfalls to the 4.8 idea:
- it's possible to be disappointed with the power level while keeping the boost level safe
Advantage to the 4.8:
- Likely better gas mileage? Though it isn't very impressive in this regard in stock form. Best I ever got with it was 16 mpg.
Maybe I should have posted this in the Projects thread, but as it's a supercharger project either way, I this seemed the appropriate place. Please let's have some input! Shoot holes in one or both ideas, tell me what you think would be the better option and I'd love some specific recommendations regarding cam and compression ratio as well as fuel system.
03-15-2022, 07:30 AM
#2
Absolutely do not get tuned at ECS. There are far better tuners.
If you are hell bent on getting a whipple, get the 2.9 and put it on your 4.8. Get 1 7/8" headers MINIMUM, 1 3/4" I wouldn't recommend on an NA motor.
Plenty of info on pros and cons of a 408. You can make the decision if that is right for you. I'd do the whipple first, then build a motor that will replace the 4.8
If you are hell bent on getting a whipple, get the 2.9 and put it on your 4.8. Get 1 7/8" headers MINIMUM, 1 3/4" I wouldn't recommend on an NA motor.
Plenty of info on pros and cons of a 408. You can make the decision if that is right for you. I'd do the whipple first, then build a motor that will replace the 4.8
03-15-2022, 11:35 AM
#3
I doubt Whipple would recommend it for a 4.8L but don't waste your time/money on a 1.6L/W100AX unless you are certain you plan to keep a stock 4.8L. You would have to spin to max rpm to make 12-14psi and would have minimal room for any upgrades in engine displacement (7-8psi on 6.0L maxed out).
My suggestion is go straight for the W140AX/2.3L or a TVS2300 and put it on the sbe 4.8L pullied to 10-12psi. You could even throw a cam in if desired but no real need to go into the bottom end unless something is wrong with the current engine. I speculate this will make ~460WHP and be plenty enough for a fun driver but allow room to grow if you decide to build the 6.0 or 408. However, if planning to stay in the 4.8-6.0 engine displacement, I would strongly consider the TVS1900.
My suggestion is go straight for the W140AX/2.3L or a TVS2300 and put it on the sbe 4.8L pullied to 10-12psi. You could even throw a cam in if desired but no real need to go into the bottom end unless something is wrong with the current engine. I speculate this will make ~460WHP and be plenty enough for a fun driver but allow room to grow if you decide to build the 6.0 or 408. However, if planning to stay in the 4.8-6.0 engine displacement, I would strongly consider the TVS1900.
03-16-2022, 06:37 PM
#4
On The Tree
Thread Starter
Thank you both for your replies. Please keep in mind I know nothing about supercharging and am trying to get educated.
Wretched, please suggest someplace else for a tune. Tune Time in Lakewood?? Another member gave me a number for a guy in central NJ, but he did not answer a phone message. I will be needing a tune for my work truck very shortly, as I just put a towing cam in its 6.0 (this is the 2003).
Also, please elaborate on the header size recommendation. Is this because the blower will move enough air to require the bigger tubes? I'm worried about killing the bottom end.
I'm not hell bent on anything. Seems like you don't like the Whipple? Why not? What do you like instead?
Big Kid: You're right, Whipple recommended their little unit for the 4.8. When I asked about blower cam recommendations they were the opposite of helpful. Said, "All our research is done on stock engines." WTF is that??? I'll go see what I can find online about the TVS1900.
I spoke to Comp Cams today asking for a blower cam recommendation for the 4.8. That guy suggested their part number 189-400-13. At .050" duration is 210/224 and lift is .556/.568. 114 lobe separation. All of that sounds good to my uneducated ears, EXCEPT: The intake valve closes pretty late, 57* ABDC. Isn't that pretty late for a FI application?
Wretched, please suggest someplace else for a tune. Tune Time in Lakewood?? Another member gave me a number for a guy in central NJ, but he did not answer a phone message. I will be needing a tune for my work truck very shortly, as I just put a towing cam in its 6.0 (this is the 2003).
Also, please elaborate on the header size recommendation. Is this because the blower will move enough air to require the bigger tubes? I'm worried about killing the bottom end.
I'm not hell bent on anything. Seems like you don't like the Whipple? Why not? What do you like instead?
Big Kid: You're right, Whipple recommended their little unit for the 4.8. When I asked about blower cam recommendations they were the opposite of helpful. Said, "All our research is done on stock engines." WTF is that??? I'll go see what I can find online about the TVS1900.
I spoke to Comp Cams today asking for a blower cam recommendation for the 4.8. That guy suggested their part number 189-400-13. At .050" duration is 210/224 and lift is .556/.568. 114 lobe separation. All of that sounds good to my uneducated ears, EXCEPT: The intake valve closes pretty late, 57* ABDC. Isn't that pretty late for a FI application?
03-17-2022, 08:18 AM
#5
TECH Junkie
Backpressure is a myth, do the 1 7/8s you won't lose any bottom end.
I have 1 3/4s and I'm glad I did it cause I contact my frame but if I had no issues 1 7/8s ftw!
I have 1 3/4s and I'm glad I did it cause I contact my frame but if I had no issues 1 7/8s ftw!
03-19-2022, 12:39 PM
#6
TECH Junkie
At 98k it's not even broken in yet for an LS! I like the idea of a bigger blower on the 4.8 or 6.0. I wouldn't do a 408 because you like to travel some. Also trans will need a lot of love or a 4l80. TVS 1.9 or 2300 or Whipple 2.3 or 2.9 imo. Smaller for low boost isn't a bad idea but my 5.3 has no issue with a 2.9 @ 7.5lbs. All will work. Don't need a cam necessarily but it helps. I am totally happy with my stock cam with what I use mine for. 1 7/8" headers. Look at Speed Engineering or TSP to save some $$ to use elsewhere. Agree with all of the above. These guys know their stuff.
03-23-2022, 11:31 AM
#7
On The Tree
Thread Starter
Thanks for the input, everybody. I'm very happy to hear of your success with a 2.9l blower on a 5.3.
After thinking about it from just about every angle, I've decided against the 408 for this truck. It will stay a 4.8. What I think I might do is get the Whipple kit for this truck. It includes their "140x" (I think that's the model) blower. It's not clear to me what its displacement is; I think it's 2.3l. Hard to tell from the marketing-speak and lack of specific info on that. I think for simplicity and immediate cost savings I'll keep the engine none stock and use the handheld tuner that comes with the kit. I will definitely add beaders and exhaust later, and almost certainly a cam, but I have so many irons in the fire already that limiting the scope of this project will be good for me. The blower should give me enough giddyup to solve the badly underpowered problem for the time being.
After thinking about it from just about every angle, I've decided against the 408 for this truck. It will stay a 4.8. What I think I might do is get the Whipple kit for this truck. It includes their "140x" (I think that's the model) blower. It's not clear to me what its displacement is; I think it's 2.3l. Hard to tell from the marketing-speak and lack of specific info on that. I think for simplicity and immediate cost savings I'll keep the engine none stock and use the handheld tuner that comes with the kit. I will definitely add beaders and exhaust later, and almost certainly a cam, but I have so many irons in the fire already that limiting the scope of this project will be good for me. The blower should give me enough giddyup to solve the badly underpowered problem for the time being.
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03-23-2022, 11:37 AM
#8
TECH Junkie
Personally I would at least swap the crank out for a longer stroke to reach 5.3. If you so desire bore it out a little bit but I find the 4.8s to be the suck
03-23-2022, 06:41 PM
#9
If you're going to add a limited slip (I'd recommend the Eaton Detroit TrueTrac - love it!) with the 4.8L go ahead and upgrade to 3.42s or even 3.73s while in there (wish I had). On the highway you might lose an mpg, but sometimes you can gain in city traffic because you don't have to spend as much time in enrichment mode to accelerate (engine doesn't have to work as hard to get the truck moving). Plus if towing, the steeper gear can mean less down shifting, also sometimes saving fuel when hauling.
Info. in case you decide to do the other stuff down the road:
For the headers, back pressure is a myth but exhaust velocity is not. That being said, I'd still go with the 1 7/8 headers to let it take advantage of the blower.
The Comp189-400-13 (XR263PIHR14) is there VVT compatible cam (so hopefully yours has that) to be used with their cam phase limiter. It's ground on a 105 intake centerline, so the 0.050" IVC is only 30* (assuming their phase limiter keeps the park position @ 0* advance - anyone confirm?) which would be fine for a small 4.8L in a truck. Should work well as a PDS cam in a 4.8L with cathedral port heads. You'll want a tuner who is experienced with VVT and access to a chassis dyno to really take advantage.
Info. in case you decide to do the other stuff down the road:
For the headers, back pressure is a myth but exhaust velocity is not. That being said, I'd still go with the 1 7/8 headers to let it take advantage of the blower.
The Comp189-400-13 (XR263PIHR14) is there VVT compatible cam (so hopefully yours has that) to be used with their cam phase limiter. It's ground on a 105 intake centerline, so the 0.050" IVC is only 30* (assuming their phase limiter keeps the park position @ 0* advance - anyone confirm?) which would be fine for a small 4.8L in a truck. Should work well as a PDS cam in a 4.8L with cathedral port heads. You'll want a tuner who is experienced with VVT and access to a chassis dyno to really take advantage.