Wideband shootout - 9 sensors tested
07-02-2007, 12:14 PM
#21
more response
Dan Hourigan
Vice President
Dynojet Research Inc.
From: Dewey Gibson [mailto:dewey@bowenelectric.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 10:32 AM
To: 'Danny Hourigan'; 'Dewey (home) Gibson'
Subject: RE: comparing different widebands
Dan,
I appreciate your response, as I know that you know (Saturday Night skit in the working there) your response, be it good or bad is very important. I will pass your response on to fellow performance colleagues and forum moderators if you don’t mind. I am a moderator on performancetrucks.net and I can tell you, wideband units are a common topic. Ground offset being a HUGE factor in my opinion. I certainly agree, Bosch QC appears to be good at what they call a profession. If you’re interested, a link to a thread on our forum is here LINKY or https://www.performancetrucks.net/forums/showthread.php?t=395805 I am sure, knowing the forum world, this article is running every where by now, and to be honest, your product’s pricing not being favorable-I’d imagine this article isn’t going to do your sales much good. Quiet frankly, not to kiss ***, but I like your software (ease of) and instructions are pretty simple and detailed. I’d only ask that your controller wouldn’t close the relay when it’s powered down.
Thanks again,
Dewey Gibson
That's fine, feel free to share this with your colleagues and forum moderators. You're right, when passing the data via the 0-5v output, the potential creating a ground offset is critical. I've had plenty of SCT Xcal2 owners notice a .2-.3 difference because of the ground offset, but the HPT device seems to be spot on. It is very important to make sure the WBC software and datalogs match the 3rd party device datalogs.
Normally you can find the WBC for $429, as that's the minimum advertised price. I really do think, even to this day, that we offer more "bang for the buck" with all of the features that we offer.
WBC v2.0 is on the horizon (SEMA), and it will be a rather low cost wideband controller with a 0-5v and CAN output ($200-$250). The 0-5v could be sent out to a data acquisition device, or even drive a low cost gauge. The other option, which really blows open the possibilities, is to send the CAN output to this:
powercommander 3 usb(non sposnor link removed)
This thing is $300 and opens a lot of doors for us. It's geared towards the Powercommander line of products, as it allows you to store fuel maps, upload the maps to the Powercommander, as well as datalog the various channels that are tied into the system. We do plan on developing a specific version of software for the LCD display that's more "WBC v2.0 friendly", so that will be cool.
Regards,
Normally you can find the WBC for $429, as that's the minimum advertised price. I really do think, even to this day, that we offer more "bang for the buck" with all of the features that we offer.
WBC v2.0 is on the horizon (SEMA), and it will be a rather low cost wideband controller with a 0-5v and CAN output ($200-$250). The 0-5v could be sent out to a data acquisition device, or even drive a low cost gauge. The other option, which really blows open the possibilities, is to send the CAN output to this:
powercommander 3 usb(non sposnor link removed)
This thing is $300 and opens a lot of doors for us. It's geared towards the Powercommander line of products, as it allows you to store fuel maps, upload the maps to the Powercommander, as well as datalog the various channels that are tied into the system. We do plan on developing a specific version of software for the LCD display that's more "WBC v2.0 friendly", so that will be cool.
Regards,
----------------
Dan Hourigan
Vice President
Dynojet Research Inc.
From: Dewey Gibson [mailto:dewey@bowenelectric.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 10:32 AM
To: 'Danny Hourigan'; 'Dewey (home) Gibson'
Subject: RE: comparing different widebands
Dan,
I appreciate your response, as I know that you know (Saturday Night skit in the working there) your response, be it good or bad is very important. I will pass your response on to fellow performance colleagues and forum moderators if you don’t mind. I am a moderator on performancetrucks.net and I can tell you, wideband units are a common topic. Ground offset being a HUGE factor in my opinion. I certainly agree, Bosch QC appears to be good at what they call a profession. If you’re interested, a link to a thread on our forum is here LINKY or https://www.performancetrucks.net/forums/showthread.php?t=395805 I am sure, knowing the forum world, this article is running every where by now, and to be honest, your product’s pricing not being favorable-I’d imagine this article isn’t going to do your sales much good. Quiet frankly, not to kiss ***, but I like your software (ease of) and instructions are pretty simple and detailed. I’d only ask that your controller wouldn’t close the relay when it’s powered down.
Thanks again,
Dewey Gibson
Last edited by dewmanshu; 07-02-2007 at 12:24 PM.
07-02-2007, 12:15 PM
#22
and....
Dewey, one thing I just learned about the "latency"..............
"We have an averaging function of air-fuel that is software selectable. We have a default averaging set so that the gauge does not bounce around. Averaging to signal from sensor then sent to gauge and 0-5 v out. Lowering the averaging number lowers the delay to almost nothing on all outputs.
I don't have the software in front of me, but I believe there is a setting called "sensitivity", and according to the engineers, that setting effects both the gauge latency, as well as the 0-5v output.
Hope this helps,
"We have an averaging function of air-fuel that is software selectable. We have a default averaging set so that the gauge does not bounce around. Averaging to signal from sensor then sent to gauge and 0-5 v out. Lowering the averaging number lowers the delay to almost nothing on all outputs.
I don't have the software in front of me, but I believe there is a setting called "sensitivity", and according to the engineers, that setting effects both the gauge latency, as well as the 0-5v output.
Hope this helps,
----------------
Dan Hourigan
Dan Hourigan
07-02-2007, 12:23 PM
#23
sorry about the not so chronological order there. I am not advertising dynojet here, but it does mean alot to me that they did respond to my email, good or bad. They bring up some good points. I would suggest all of you who have a wideband that finished poorly to write tech of that company and post their response as well.
07-02-2007, 02:31 PM
#24
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Good posts Dewey. The latency being slow does make sense to keep the gauge from bouncing around. I'm not too concerned with that but the 1.0 AFR off on accuracy with the PLX does scare me since I just purchased one that I haven't used yet. Some feedback from them would be nice.
07-02-2007, 03:16 PM
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PLX has a response up on their forums: LINK
I will point out that the first post keeps changing without any "edited on/by" notification (at least twice that I know of). Earlier versions included screenshots an verbiage taking jabs at Innovate. I'm guessing they decided to be more professional in their response.
I will point out that the first post keeps changing without any "edited on/by" notification (at least twice that I know of). Earlier versions included screenshots an verbiage taking jabs at Innovate. I'm guessing they decided to be more professional in their response.
07-02-2007, 07:47 PM
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The Innovative LM-1 also has a programmable feature to change the "averaging" of the data being read. If you just read the raw data at full speed without being averaged it bounces around too much.
I do like companies that at least respond to their customers in a professional manner.
I do like companies that at least respond to their customers in a professional manner.
07-03-2007, 05:13 PM
#27
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I've used about 5 of these units all at once on my truck and I can honestly say my results weren't the same as far as accuracy.
I use the FAST unit because it's easy to use and portable, it was within .2 of all the other 4 units.
I'm not sure what hidden variables they threw in their test, but I've seen most of these units to be accurate enough and within .2 of each other that my decision came down to ease of use. The FAST unit has it imo.
btw, we're a PLX dealer if anyone is interested. check out their site, www.plxdevices.com they have some pretty neat gauges!
just my opinion based on a real world test,
allen
I use the FAST unit because it's easy to use and portable, it was within .2 of all the other 4 units.
I'm not sure what hidden variables they threw in their test, but I've seen most of these units to be accurate enough and within .2 of each other that my decision came down to ease of use. The FAST unit has it imo.
btw, we're a PLX dealer if anyone is interested. check out their site, www.plxdevices.com they have some pretty neat gauges!
just my opinion based on a real world test,
allen
07-03-2007, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by dewmanshu
Where do you mount those sensors at Allen?
The readings may be different before and after the cats with old cat converters, but mine were somewhat new. Also, I'm sure on high HP vehicles that are turbocharged, before or after the cat would make a difference, but not on my truck, which is pretty much what most of us have, or close to.
hope this helps,
allen
07-03-2007, 07:53 PM
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Very interesting article.
I'm impressed with the response that DynoJet gave. If it were me, I probably would have ignored that and blown it off as a bitchy keyboard warrior.
I think that alone would be some persuasion for me. I like the sounds of thier what's to come too.
Allen, you deal DynoJet's ??
I'm impressed with the response that DynoJet gave. If it were me, I probably would have ignored that and blown it off as a bitchy keyboard warrior.
I think that alone would be some persuasion for me. I like the sounds of thier what's to come too.
Allen, you deal DynoJet's ??