would a 3/4 ton be a beter platform for 800+hp
Jan 21, 2005 | 03:12 PM
#42
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Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Las Vegas, NV
his housing isn't having to take 700ftlbs. when he's racing it, he's in 4 wheel drive and in 2wd it doesn't stand a chance of hooking up. a 4L60E couldn't take that much power with reliability, but some have taken that much abuse and lived. the carrier in the rear does matter. if he breaks the gov-lock that's in there does that mean he needs a whole new rear? no. that means you replace the part that broke with a much better piece. housing twisting is not a new thing and you'll find signs of that on many of them. there are a few trucks on here that are 2wd in the 11's and i believe they are using the 10 bolt that came in the truck. i'm guessing your tahoe must have considerably more torque going to the rear causing yours to twist and not yours? after running a friends tahoe all summer with it capable of pulling 60' times in the 1.8's (has run low 1.9's previously at the track) and having documented 13 second passes, there is no sign of excessive twisting, leaking, gov-lock failure, etc. the 4L60E has had no slipage or breakage problems and is all stock except a zippy kit and the vigilante converter. i'd put a good bet that with a good carrier in jim's truck it would go 10's on slicks in 2wd and not break the 10 bolt. i've seen a stock gov-locked 10 bolt not only go 10's, but pull off a 1.5 60' time. overbuilding a truck doesn't go fast. improve the pieces you are working with until they either can't be improved any more an still fail or until it works well enough that you trust it. if i can put 500hp through a 4L60E and make it work whether it "should" or not, i'm not going to a power robbing and much heavier 4L80E. i'd rather have too much power than too much drivetrain...
Jan 21, 2005 | 03:19 PM
#43
Originally Posted by zippy
his housing isn't having to take 700ftlbs. when he's racing it, he's in 4 wheel drive and in 2wd it doesn't stand a chance of hooking up. a 4L60E couldn't take that much power with reliability, but some have taken that much abuse and lived. the carrier in the rear does matter. if he breaks the gov-lock that's in there does that mean he needs a whole new rear? no. that means you replace the part that broke with a much better piece. housing twisting is not a new thing and you'll find signs of that on many of them. there are a few trucks on here that are 2wd in the 11's and i believe they are using the 10 bolt that came in the truck. i'm guessing your tahoe must have considerably more torque going to the rear causing yours to twist and not yours? after running a friends tahoe all summer with it capable of pulling 60' times in the 1.8's (has run low 1.9's previously at the track) and having documented 13 second passes, there is no sign of excessive twisting, leaking, gov-lock failure, etc. the 4L60E has had no slipage or breakage problems and is all stock except a zippy kit and the vigilante converter. i'd put a good bet that with a good carrier in jim's truck it would go 10's on slicks in 2wd and not break the 10 bolt. i've seen a stock gov-locked 10 bolt not only go 10's, but pull off a 1.5 60' time. overbuilding a truck doesn't go fast. improve the pieces you are working with until they either can't be improved any more an still fail or until it works well enough that you trust it. if i can put 500hp through a 4L60E and make it work whether it "should" or not, i'm not going to a power robbing and much heavier 4L80E. i'd rather have too much power than too much drivetrain...
Again, that's just me, most would probably agree with you.
Jan 21, 2005 | 03:23 PM
#44
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From: Deep in the seedy underworld of Koonerville
The nice thing for Jim is that he is splitting all the power between 2 diffs. If the G80 blows up I think some upgraded internals could take it ALOT farther. There are plenty of guys on here probably putting more power through the 8.5 in 2wd trucks than Jim is in his 4wd.
There is nothing wrong at all with the way James has went about his build though. Being safe and bulletproofing his drivetrain is very smart.
There is nothing wrong at all with the way James has went about his build though. Being safe and bulletproofing his drivetrain is very smart.
Jan 21, 2005 | 04:02 PM
#45
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single digit dreamer
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From: omaha ne
Originally Posted by James B.
It does not matter what kind of differential is in the 10-bolt housing. The housing will flex and change the contact pattern of the gears putting too much force on the leading edges causing the teeth to break off.
It is illogical to say the 10-bolt can handle this much torque. It absolutely can not. When it breaks it will take out the trans and/or the driveshaft with it, possibly ejecting one or both axle shafts at the same time. This is a dangerous situation.
Claiming a 10-bolt will handle this much torque in a truck is every bit as irresposible as saying a 4L60-E can handle 700ft/lbs. in a truck.
These discussions always come out the same, apples get compared to oranges and the real issues become shrouded in irrelevance.
Complacency gets VERY expensive.
It is illogical to say the 10-bolt can handle this much torque. It absolutely can not. When it breaks it will take out the trans and/or the driveshaft with it, possibly ejecting one or both axle shafts at the same time. This is a dangerous situation.
Claiming a 10-bolt will handle this much torque in a truck is every bit as irresposible as saying a 4L60-E can handle 700ft/lbs. in a truck.
These discussions always come out the same, apples get compared to oranges and the real issues become shrouded in irrelevance.
Complacency gets VERY expensive.
the rear will only see as much tq as my tires will hold. as long as i run stock tires i should be fine. even DR's would probably be fine.
Jan 21, 2005 | 04:08 PM
#46
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 26
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Parish,
Don't rule out the 8.1 Parts are finally starting to come out for this engine. Check out this link. http://www.raylarengine.com
I'm looking at having the kit put in my boat next winter. (496MAG)
The downfall with the 8.1 is the crappy heads and pistons. The crank is actually very strong and is good for 600hp easy. There are currently Whipple Charged 8.1's on boats running over 700flts torque with this stock bottom end. You'll notice on the web page they also provide blower pistons which would be ideal for you. This 8.1 is a real TORQUE monster which is what is needed in the boating & heavy truck world. The heads by themselves are worth 65hp. Add cam & intake and your @ 550hp, that's before you drop a blower or better yet a turbo.
Good luck with your decision and keep us posted!
Don't rule out the 8.1 Parts are finally starting to come out for this engine. Check out this link. http://www.raylarengine.com
I'm looking at having the kit put in my boat next winter. (496MAG)
The downfall with the 8.1 is the crappy heads and pistons. The crank is actually very strong and is good for 600hp easy. There are currently Whipple Charged 8.1's on boats running over 700flts torque with this stock bottom end. You'll notice on the web page they also provide blower pistons which would be ideal for you. This 8.1 is a real TORQUE monster which is what is needed in the boating & heavy truck world. The heads by themselves are worth 65hp. Add cam & intake and your @ 550hp, that's before you drop a blower or better yet a turbo.
Good luck with your decision and keep us posted!
Jan 21, 2005 | 04:28 PM
#48
I would keep the truck you have now. going to a 14 bolt is just overkill too. I have pulled many 1.5 60ft's on a stock 8.5" with a GOV-LOCK!!!! If you want to go fast you better get something light.
The real question should be why do you continue suit with a 4wd truck. Go to 2wd. With the proper suspension traction will not be a issue.
If you want to go fast stick with light and simple.
Besides you don't want me in your area with the S-10. Definatly not if you get a 2500.
I think the 2500 would be a *** backwards way of shooting for faster times.
Light, simple, strong= FAST.
Like NXRicky siad.
TJ
The real question should be why do you continue suit with a 4wd truck. Go to 2wd. With the proper suspension traction will not be a issue.
If you want to go fast stick with light and simple.
Besides you don't want me in your area with the S-10. Definatly not if you get a 2500.
I think the 2500 would be a *** backwards way of shooting for faster times.
Light, simple, strong= FAST.
Like NXRicky siad.
TJ
Jan 21, 2005 | 04:52 PM
#49
Originally Posted by hellbents10
I would keep the truck you have now. going to a 14 bolt is just overkill too. I have pulled many 1.5 60ft's on a stock 8.5" with a GOV-LOCK!!!! If you want to go fast you better get something light.
The real question should be why do you continue suit with a 4wd truck. Go to 2wd. With the proper suspension traction will not be a issue.
If you want to go fast stick with light and simple.
Besides you don't want me in your area with the S-10. Definatly not if you get a 2500.
I think the 2500 would be a *** backwards way of shooting for faster times.
Light, simple, strong= FAST.
Like NXRicky siad.
TJ
The real question should be why do you continue suit with a 4wd truck. Go to 2wd. With the proper suspension traction will not be a issue.
If you want to go fast stick with light and simple.
Besides you don't want me in your area with the S-10. Definatly not if you get a 2500.
I think the 2500 would be a *** backwards way of shooting for faster times.
Light, simple, strong= FAST.
Like NXRicky siad.
TJ
Jan 21, 2005 | 04:59 PM
#50
Thread Starter
single digit dreamer
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From: omaha ne
Originally Posted by moregrip
That's why these forums are so great! Everyone has their own idea of what's right and what they are comfortable with.