Update On Another 4.8 Bites The Dust! Nelson Tune Updates With Dyno Info!
Jan 7, 2005 | 06:32 PM
#11
hey what plugs did you melt. when i was running the 12's before the 80e i was running the ngk tr55's at .40 gap. then i went to the tr6's and i broke soon after. yay that last tune i had just worked great on nos and 30* timing. but i had spent a lot of time with allen tuning on it to. i need to do it with this latest pcm as well one day.
Jan 8, 2005 | 10:49 AM
#12
He melted his stock plugs(dumb ***) on a 120 dry shot and melted the TR-6's on a 100 wet shot twice I think! Yeah my motor blew and I wasnt sraying at the time it was really weird and I dont think its gonna do any good talking about the tune or not because it doesnt look like anymore info is going to come out of it. I just wanted to help people not make any mistakes I have made because I am lucky I could come of with $2500.00 to fix it and some might not be as lucky. Allen has been a really great guy to me and has gone way out of his way before when I basiclly had no mods. Ive gotten 4 perfect tunes from him and unfortunatly 10 miles into the new one my motor went but I will still not blame anyone becaue I chose to mod my truck. I will tell you this dont mail order a tune if you have done any major mods. I got lucky and the tuner who just did my LS1 was a personal friend of my installer and got me what seems to be damn near a perfect mail order tune in a day. He had done a couple of trucks exactly like mine and if I did have a probelm we could arrange here or there. I sprayed twice on my completly stock motor. It was wet shots and I have TPS switch,FPSS switch,digital window switch,A/F switch(cuts off at lean),and FPSS so I was and still am playing it very safe. The 2nd time I seemed to screw somehting up-we replaced cam.springs,pushrods,and 160 stat abd there was no visible piston damage and everything ran fine after that. So I was being as safe as you can with n20. Anythung can happen. Just make sure you can pay for your mistakes! 
I got my truck back this morning witht he LS1 and whoah-check my new thread!
I got my truck back this morning witht he LS1 and whoah-check my new thread!
Jan 9, 2005 | 07:15 AM
#13
Teching In
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: texas
Originally Posted by CRAZYCUTER4.8
I AM POSTING THIS IN FAIRNESS TO ALL INVOLVED WITH THE PREVIOUS THREAD MIKE(TIGERFAN187) HAD STARTED. I RECIEVED A PM FROM NELSON YESTERDAY THAT INDICATED THAT HE WAS A BIT AGGRIVATED WITH MY COMMENTS ABOUT THE TUNE. I WAS JUST STATING FACTS AS I AM ABOUT TO DO NOW.
last night after work I decided to pickup mike(tigerfan187) & make a trip out to B&M racing to drool over the new LS1 & test the nelson tune on the dyno.
To be scientific both of our vehicles are identical years, makes, displacements, mods, with the exception of the exhaust, I have no cats, true duals, & headers.
I drove around for about 40 minutes with the nelson tune in & the tech2 hooked up logging data. At idle the truck ran a perfect 0 on fuel trim values. I tend to keep mine around -2%.
at very light throttle input with no load the fuel trims stayed about + 2-4%, keep in mind that when I cut the cats I instantly ran lean 4-5%, so I can only speculate that with this tune in mikes truck the fuel would have been perfect.
above part throttle driving, & driving the engine under heavy loads is where the major difference was. I consistantly recorded fuel trims values between
+ 12-19% indicating a lean condition, this occured without signs of detonation.
Now it was time to strap it to the dyno. My objectives here were to compare my wideband dynotuning (which I was informed last night I have logged over 20 of them) & the nelson tune. The wideband was not available last night so the only option I had was to read the O2's.
Nelsons tune was ran first with the only modification being that I brought the timing up from 25 to 30 due to the fact that I was not spraying. The nelson tune made a total of 5 more horsepower than mine. torque was identical. the Nelso tune ran about 650mv on the pulls, I ran around 1000mv. despite the huge variation in our tables & o2 sensor readings I was suprised that there was only 5 hp difference between the two. Of course it has become apparent here recently since spraying the 220 shot over & over again that my own 4.8 is now getting tired. I have seen a few dimples in the top of my pistons & have about a 20psi variance between all 8 cylinders. That might explain for the lack of response.
As for the shifting problems I heard from Ed Wright that the hp tuners tire, gear, & speedo table was scaled incorrectly. That could explain the difference in what edit shows wot shifts in first @ 30mph & nelson saying they were @ 38mph.
So just to clear thing up, the nelson tune was off, but not so off that I think it could have caused the catostrophic failure that occured. For the most part it was right on the fuel data until heavy throttle application was applied. Of course this could have been fixed easily with an updated tune. It is my opinion that whatever occured was possibly there all along, the lean condition could have been the straw that broke the camels back. But in our era of computered controlled engine management systems there are so many things that could occur once we start doing the things we do.
As for Nelson I was a bit dissipointed in the manner in which he came at me, both on the thread & when he pm me. I thought it was totally unprofessional.
however in retrospect I realize that he provides for his faimily in large part based upon his reputation, & I probably defaced his character in his eyes.
I am sure he is a man just like the rest of us & acted in a way that we all would.
To nelson, the tune from a fueling standpoint would have been perfect if there was a bit more fuel added above 2800rpms. Maybe this info might help you in the future. I am in no way a professional tuner but just offering some advice being that the truck was not there for you to see.
if anyone else has any questions feel free to shoot away
last night after work I decided to pickup mike(tigerfan187) & make a trip out to B&M racing to drool over the new LS1 & test the nelson tune on the dyno.
To be scientific both of our vehicles are identical years, makes, displacements, mods, with the exception of the exhaust, I have no cats, true duals, & headers.
I drove around for about 40 minutes with the nelson tune in & the tech2 hooked up logging data. At idle the truck ran a perfect 0 on fuel trim values. I tend to keep mine around -2%.
at very light throttle input with no load the fuel trims stayed about + 2-4%, keep in mind that when I cut the cats I instantly ran lean 4-5%, so I can only speculate that with this tune in mikes truck the fuel would have been perfect.
above part throttle driving, & driving the engine under heavy loads is where the major difference was. I consistantly recorded fuel trims values between
+ 12-19% indicating a lean condition, this occured without signs of detonation.
Now it was time to strap it to the dyno. My objectives here were to compare my wideband dynotuning (which I was informed last night I have logged over 20 of them) & the nelson tune. The wideband was not available last night so the only option I had was to read the O2's.
Nelsons tune was ran first with the only modification being that I brought the timing up from 25 to 30 due to the fact that I was not spraying. The nelson tune made a total of 5 more horsepower than mine. torque was identical. the Nelso tune ran about 650mv on the pulls, I ran around 1000mv. despite the huge variation in our tables & o2 sensor readings I was suprised that there was only 5 hp difference between the two. Of course it has become apparent here recently since spraying the 220 shot over & over again that my own 4.8 is now getting tired. I have seen a few dimples in the top of my pistons & have about a 20psi variance between all 8 cylinders. That might explain for the lack of response.
As for the shifting problems I heard from Ed Wright that the hp tuners tire, gear, & speedo table was scaled incorrectly. That could explain the difference in what edit shows wot shifts in first @ 30mph & nelson saying they were @ 38mph.
So just to clear thing up, the nelson tune was off, but not so off that I think it could have caused the catostrophic failure that occured. For the most part it was right on the fuel data until heavy throttle application was applied. Of course this could have been fixed easily with an updated tune. It is my opinion that whatever occured was possibly there all along, the lean condition could have been the straw that broke the camels back. But in our era of computered controlled engine management systems there are so many things that could occur once we start doing the things we do.
As for Nelson I was a bit dissipointed in the manner in which he came at me, both on the thread & when he pm me. I thought it was totally unprofessional.
however in retrospect I realize that he provides for his faimily in large part based upon his reputation, & I probably defaced his character in his eyes.
I am sure he is a man just like the rest of us & acted in a way that we all would.
To nelson, the tune from a fueling standpoint would have been perfect if there was a bit more fuel added above 2800rpms. Maybe this info might help you in the future. I am in no way a professional tuner but just offering some advice being that the truck was not there for you to see.
if anyone else has any questions feel free to shoot away
Jan 9, 2005 | 12:21 PM
#14
If you would have read that and all the other post you shouldnt have written that. Just because someone doesnt tune for a living doesnt mean they dont know **** about it. Why dont you read all post and read all the post on "ANother 4.8 Bites the Dust" and then see if you can comprehend what went on!
Oh yeah great 1st post man! Youve been readin post for the last 5-6 months but have just now posted and why have you been a memeber since Jan 05'? LMAO! Why couldnt you use your origianl name!
4.8's suck huh? Compared to what your 4.3?
Oh yeah great 1st post man! Youve been readin post for the last 5-6 months but have just now posted and why have you been a memeber since Jan 05'? LMAO! Why couldnt you use your origianl name!
4.8's suck huh? Compared to what your 4.3?
Jan 9, 2005 | 03:39 PM
#15
13 Second Truck Club
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,094
Likes: 1
From: Pueblo de Nuestra Señora la Reina de los Ángeles de la Porciúncula
Originally Posted by 4.8ssuck
I've been reading alot of posts on here over the last 5 or 6 months and I have something to say about this one. First of all, unless you have a good reputable tuning shop, I wouldn't be talking about a well-known tuner. Nelson tunes are some of the best tunes you can get. He knows his stuff and by judging from your posts, you've had edit for a short time. I'm sorry, but this got under my skin when I saw this post. You're obviously an amateur who thinks he is a pro.
Jan 9, 2005 | 06:06 PM
#16
You can't judge everything by the stock O2 readings, but you can get a good general idea about it. .650 mv is very lean if you ask me. .500 would be stoich at 14.7:1. Most people shoot for mid .800s to .900, and a little over .900 if you have a power adder. I can't say for sure, but I'd bet .650mv is upper 13.x:1.
Jan 9, 2005 | 10:22 PM
#17
Originally Posted by 4.8ssuck
I've been reading alot of posts on here over the last 5 or 6 months and I have something to say about this one. First of all, unless you have a good reputable tuning shop, I wouldn't be talking about a well-known tuner. Nelson tunes are some of the best tunes you can get. He knows his stuff and by judging from your posts, you've had edit for a short time. I'm sorry, but this got under my skin when I saw this post. You're obviously an amateur who thinks he is a pro.
Maybe you should read up a little more.
Jan 10, 2005 | 09:44 AM
#18
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
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Joined: May 2004
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From: Texas where Bigger is Better
Originally Posted by 02denali
hey what plugs did you melt. when i was running the 12's before the 80e i was running the ngk tr55's at .40 gap. then i went to the tr6's and i broke soon after. yay that last tune i had just worked great on nos and 30* timing. but i had spent a lot of time with allen tuning on it to. i need to do it with this latest pcm as well one day.
I melted the stock ones with A 120 dry shot & 34 degrees of total timing, I was running a tad lean. After running the 220 shot on the dyno I melted the tr6's gapped @ .35 with 25 degrees.
The funny thing is that I can't break my 4.8, I put 34 degrees of timing back just so it doesn't feel like a dog, (mike can vouch) but for the last week I have been spraying the hell out of it with crazy detonation, mike was getting pissed thinking why him & not me. I figure it is because I have it soooo rich, I loose a little top end power, but the torque makes up for it.
Jan 10, 2005 | 09:58 AM
#20
Thread Starter
TECH Apprentice
iTrader: (2)
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 312
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From: Texas where Bigger is Better
Originally Posted by 4.8ssuck
I've been reading alot of posts on here over the last 5 or 6 months and I have something to say about this one. First of all, unless you have a good reputable tuning shop, I wouldn't be talking about a well-known tuner. Nelson tunes are some of the best tunes you can get. He knows his stuff and by judging from your posts, you've had edit for a short time. I'm sorry, but this got under my skin when I saw this post. You're obviously an amateur who thinks he is a pro.
I have had edit for over a year now, I am not a supertuner. To speak honestly when I first got it I dumped two of my pcm's, ran a second slower at the track after a new stall & headers & was joked with by the guys here @ the dealership. Since then I have managed to slow down & ride the learning curve out. I have tuned a total of 8 vehicles to date using edit. Two of which are blown. One of those blown vehicles blew up #7 piston due to me allowing it to get lean & getting to agressive with timing.
I have payed my dues with edit, but regardless if I have cracked the ve tables to stop cam surge or I have created my own superdupertune, physics & science are always the same. What you read was science, just the facts, hell If I had it out for him I damn sure would not post that his tune made more power than mine.
of course this could be brad or duncan, if so, well you what!