Caltracs-Why buy? Just build!!
Feb 10, 2005 | 11:49 PM
#11
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On The Tree
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 156
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From: Southern,OR
Originally Posted by vanillagorilla
I wouldn't do that, there's something called patent law that prevents that. 
I'm in the process of making a set for my truck. I have them on my Camaro, so I have a really good idea what to go off of. Anyway, Lone Chev, NICE JOB!!! I have a few constructive criticisms though. 
I can't really tell too much from the pics, but did you use 3/4" heim joints? It looks like you did and that's good, because that's the minimum you should use if you're making any kind of power. Also the location of the points on the front pivot are critical. The preload bolt should be about 1/2 way between the spring eye, and the 2nd leaf in the pack. Again, I can't tell too much from the pics but the front heim joint looks a little low. This point is crucial, because it determines your instant center. Calvert racing's include a few holes here, because it allow additional adjustability, because every car is different. With that being said, you might want to add more holes so you can adjust you instant center for varying track conditions, tires, power etc. Another tip is to get the pivot to move as free as possible. There can't be any binding, they must rotate smoothly and easily.
On my set, I'm not using solid bushings, because I drive my truck everyday, and I hate the ride of solid bushings. I'm modifying the stock rubber one, so that should help with ride quality. But at the same time, they might flex too much for some of you high hp guys.
Oh yeah, one thing I see a lot of people not doing with these is: Playing with the preload. You must play with it and adjust it at the track (or somewhere safe). They're not slapper bars where you just put them on and go. You have get your pinion angle right for your setup, there's no formula for it. Trial and error.
Oh yeah, here's a link for ya'll that don't have a set to look at.
http://www.hotrodsandhemis.com/Traction.html
Again, good job man!
I'm in the process of making a set for my truck. I have them on my Camaro, so I have a really good idea what to go off of. Anyway, Lone Chev, NICE JOB!!!
I have a few constructive criticisms though. I can't really tell too much from the pics, but did you use 3/4" heim joints? It looks like you did and that's good, because that's the minimum you should use if you're making any kind of power. Also the location of the points on the front pivot are critical. The preload bolt should be about 1/2 way between the spring eye, and the 2nd leaf in the pack. Again, I can't tell too much from the pics but the front heim joint looks a little low. This point is crucial, because it determines your instant center. Calvert racing's include a few holes here, because it allow additional adjustability, because every car is different. With that being said, you might want to add more holes so you can adjust you instant center for varying track conditions, tires, power etc. Another tip is to get the pivot to move as free as possible. There can't be any binding, they must rotate smoothly and easily.On my set, I'm not using solid bushings, because I drive my truck everyday, and I hate the ride of solid bushings. I'm modifying the stock rubber one, so that should help with ride quality. But at the same time, they might flex too much for some of you high hp guys.
Oh yeah, one thing I see a lot of people not doing with these is: Playing with the preload. You must play with it and adjust it at the track (or somewhere safe). They're not slapper bars where you just put them on and go. You have get your pinion angle right for your setup, there's no formula for it. Trial and error.
Oh yeah, here's a link for ya'll that don't have a set to look at.
http://www.hotrodsandhemis.com/Traction.html
Again, good job man!
I might have even posted it here orgrinaly. They are 3/4 joints and you were right the joint is sitting lower than it should. My truck has a flip kit on it and to clear the overload spring I had to drop the front mount hole or my rear mount would have pretty been dragging the ground. I put alot of thought into changing the instant center that you talking about but came to the conclusion that it would still trasnmit the axle roll the same.
Originally Posted by BlownChevy
For the time and effort...I would just buy the caltracs.....and I am a cheap ****.
I understand what you saying though...But I couldn't bring myself to pay $300 for $30 worth of steel and bolts $45 worth of heim joints.They are working great. Diffently better then the spring clamps. I think it has something to do with moving the lifting point of the axle roll forward because the seems to hook a little better now. I did some ajusting tonight and think I found a good meduim for street driving. But after doing that I couldn't help myself so I through the slicks on an cranked the preload up. WOW I think 1.7's if not 1.6 60 foot times are coming when the track opens.
For anyone that has been thinking about these style bars if you can't build them then do buy them. I'm working up my chicken scrach drawings into a CAD program so if anyone wants the blueprints for a truck with a 4/6 drop let me know.
Feb 11, 2005 | 12:22 AM
#12
Originally Posted by Lone Chev
Or just lazy I understand what you saying though...But I couldn't bring myself to pay $300 for $30 worth of steel and bolts $45 worth of heim joints.
They are working great. Diffently better then the spring clamps. I think it has something to do with moving the lifting point of the axle roll forward because the seems to hook a little better now. I did some ajusting tonight and think I found a good meduim for street driving. But after doing that I couldn't help myself so I through the slicks on an cranked the preload up. WOW I think 1.7's if not 1.6 60 foot times are coming when the track opens.
For anyone that has been thinking about these style bars if you can't build them then do buy them. I'm working up my chicken scrach drawings into a CAD program so if anyone wants the blueprints for a truck with a 4/6 drop let me know.
I understand what you saying though...But I couldn't bring myself to pay $300 for $30 worth of steel and bolts $45 worth of heim joints.They are working great. Diffently better then the spring clamps. I think it has something to do with moving the lifting point of the axle roll forward because the seems to hook a little better now. I did some ajusting tonight and think I found a good meduim for street driving. But after doing that I couldn't help myself so I through the slicks on an cranked the preload up. WOW I think 1.7's if not 1.6 60 foot times are coming when the track opens.
For anyone that has been thinking about these style bars if you can't build them then do buy them. I'm working up my chicken scrach drawings into a CAD program so if anyone wants the blueprints for a truck with a 4/6 drop let me know.
Dont get me wrong, the ones you made look sweet
Hell I cant even weld two washers together I guess I am just lazy.....
Feb 11, 2005 | 12:28 AM
#13
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On The Tree
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 156
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From: Southern,OR
Originally Posted by BlownChevy
Dont get me wrong, the ones you made look sweet Hell I cant even weld two washers together
I guess I am just lazy.....
Hell I cant even weld two washers together I guess I am just lazy.....
Feb 11, 2005 | 09:31 AM
#16
Originally Posted by Lone Chev
I guess if I had someone else paying for my supercharger I might have just bought some too.
CalTrac makes an excellent product and a fair price ... not cheep but fair.
They spent some time and money to develop their product and I can't see how two-bit rip off fabricators like to say they are over priced. Honestly how many hours have you put into just copying their design? I can see at least two iterations of your design from the pics alone. Am I being a little critical? sure... but coming from an engineering background myself and having a complete CNC and fab shop at my disposal still doesn't lend me to rip off other peoples design build them cheeper and say I accomplished something.
Build away .. be proud of being an imitator. If you plan ever to release specs, design information or ever to sell a knock off ... I hope you suffer from all the legal implications due to you. I will forward any and all information leading to the prosecution for illegal distribution of information regarding patent infringment. As a SEMA member and designer myself, it is my duty.
If all you planed to do was test your fabrication skills or to occupy some time then great... please excuse my judgment. Don't publish your copied designs.
Richard
BTW- you need to address some pinion angle issues from your lowering from the pics I can see ... the angle is probably contributing to launch att he detriment of u-joint logevity.
Feb 11, 2005 | 02:18 PM
#20
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 156
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From: Southern,OR
Originally Posted by oxidizr
You might want to know a little more about a person before making such unfounded remarks ... Do you really know anyhting about Blown's purchasing history? Anyway why should a person's method of aquiring something make them feel bad? Just becasue there are peopl ein this world who know how to get things cheeper or in barter (read-don't have to waste personal time and rip off other people's designs) doesn't mean they should feel bad. I mean honestly ... you don't see the illegal intellectual infringement you are commiting should you ever publish the design specs you have copied? ... their design is pat. pend.??? SO LETS NOT TALK ABOUT ETHICS OR HOW SOMEONE AQUIRED SOMETHING ... It really doesn't mean anything from you.
CalTrac makes an excellent product and a fair price ... not cheep but fair.
They spent some time and money to develop their product and I can't see how two-bit rip off fabricators like to say they are over priced. Honestly how many hours have you put into just copying their design? I can see at least two iterations of your design from the pics alone. Am I being a little critical? sure... but coming from an engineering background myself and having a complete CNC and fab shop at my disposal still doesn't lend me to rip off other peoples design build them cheeper and say I accomplished something.
Build away .. be proud of being an imitator. If you plan ever to release specs, design information or ever to sell a knock off ... I hope you suffer from all the legal implications due to you. I will forward any and all information leading to the prosecution for illegal distribution of information regarding patent infringment. As a SEMA member and designer myself, it is my duty.
If all you planed to do was test your fabrication skills or to occupy some time then great... please excuse my judgment. Don't publish your copied designs.
Richard
BTW- you need to address some pinion angle issues from your lowering from the pics I can see ... the angle is probably contributing to launch att he detriment of u-joint logevity.
CalTrac makes an excellent product and a fair price ... not cheep but fair.
They spent some time and money to develop their product and I can't see how two-bit rip off fabricators like to say they are over priced. Honestly how many hours have you put into just copying their design? I can see at least two iterations of your design from the pics alone. Am I being a little critical? sure... but coming from an engineering background myself and having a complete CNC and fab shop at my disposal still doesn't lend me to rip off other peoples design build them cheeper and say I accomplished something.
Build away .. be proud of being an imitator. If you plan ever to release specs, design information or ever to sell a knock off ... I hope you suffer from all the legal implications due to you. I will forward any and all information leading to the prosecution for illegal distribution of information regarding patent infringment. As a SEMA member and designer myself, it is my duty.
If all you planed to do was test your fabrication skills or to occupy some time then great... please excuse my judgment. Don't publish your copied designs.
Richard
BTW- you need to address some pinion angle issues from your lowering from the pics I can see ... the angle is probably contributing to launch att he detriment of u-joint logevity.
And to the rest of the post 10-4 Didn't mean to put your panties in a twist. But there are alot of differances between my design an caltracs so unless the patented the idea of how the bars work I have not broken any laws. And if they do hold such a patent. Looks like Competion Engneering is in trouble. And I'm sure that my bars are not near as good as the caltracs. I never planed on selling any.
I'm not trying to **** anyone off here I have got a lot of good info for this site and just wanted to give something back.