How much power from FMIC upgrade?
Jun 17, 2009 | 06:40 PM
#11
Well when I put the intercooler on mine it made a big difference. It took allot of tuning and allot more fuel.
Before intercooler- IAT's were about 120 above at 9lb after a WO pull 12 degrees timing
After - IAT's 12-14 above at 7.5lb boost 20 degree timing
Currently its at 11lb, 19 degree timing
Long story short, after the intercooler my boost droped almost 2lb. However it ran better, 4 tenths faster in 1/4 with 1.5-2lb less boost. It made a huge difference on top end (naturally) before the intercooler it fell on its face mid way through 2nd gear.
Before intercooler- IAT's were about 120 above at 9lb after a WO pull 12 degrees timing
After - IAT's 12-14 above at 7.5lb boost 20 degree timing
Currently its at 11lb, 19 degree timing
Long story short, after the intercooler my boost droped almost 2lb. However it ran better, 4 tenths faster in 1/4 with 1.5-2lb less boost. It made a huge difference on top end (naturally) before the intercooler it fell on its face mid way through 2nd gear.
Jun 17, 2009 | 09:47 PM
#12
I disagree also. 
Here is some info I have for that.
"Supercharger output is fixed and doesn't increase merely because downstream air charge temperature is lowered. It's the same air by mass. The mass, the weight, the oxygen content of that blast of air discharge by the supercharger cannot be increased. You don't believe it? Try this. Capture the discharged air in a bottle, seal it and weight it at 300*, 200* and -50*. The weight(mass) will not change, the engine can't ingest more air so it will not make more power. Yes, the cooler denser air, at -50* will allow more boost and/or more timing but that air by itself will not make more power.
Now if the air(ambient) temperature entering the supercharger is reduced like driving in Alaska instead of Arizona then the cooler denser air will make more power. About 1% increase for every 10* temperature drop."
That is why I say if he changes the pulley to get back the lost 1-3 lbs do to the FMIC then he would definitely see some good gains. Not doing so might get him a little but you are robbing Peter to give to Paul so to speak.
Here is some info I have for that.
"Supercharger output is fixed and doesn't increase merely because downstream air charge temperature is lowered. It's the same air by mass. The mass, the weight, the oxygen content of that blast of air discharge by the supercharger cannot be increased. You don't believe it? Try this. Capture the discharged air in a bottle, seal it and weight it at 300*, 200* and -50*. The weight(mass) will not change, the engine can't ingest more air so it will not make more power. Yes, the cooler denser air, at -50* will allow more boost and/or more timing but that air by itself will not make more power.
Now if the air(ambient) temperature entering the supercharger is reduced like driving in Alaska instead of Arizona then the cooler denser air will make more power. About 1% increase for every 10* temperature drop."
That is why I say if he changes the pulley to get back the lost 1-3 lbs do to the FMIC then he would definitely see some good gains. Not doing so might get him a little but you are robbing Peter to give to Paul so to speak.
Jun 17, 2009 | 11:27 PM
#13
Thread Starter
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 284
Likes: 0
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Well when I put the intercooler on mine it made a big difference. It took allot of tuning and allot more fuel.
Before intercooler- IAT's were about 120 above at 9lb after a WO pull 12 degrees timing
After - IAT's 12-14 above at 7.5lb boost 20 degree timing
Currently its at 11lb, 19 degree timing
Long story short, after the intercooler my boost droped almost 2lb. However it ran better, 4 tenths faster in 1/4 with 1.5-2lb less boost. It made a huge difference on top end (naturally) before the intercooler it fell on its face mid way through 2nd gear.
Before intercooler- IAT's were about 120 above at 9lb after a WO pull 12 degrees timing
After - IAT's 12-14 above at 7.5lb boost 20 degree timing
Currently its at 11lb, 19 degree timing
Long story short, after the intercooler my boost droped almost 2lb. However it ran better, 4 tenths faster in 1/4 with 1.5-2lb less boost. It made a huge difference on top end (naturally) before the intercooler it fell on its face mid way through 2nd gear.
Jun 18, 2009 | 09:15 AM
#15
I disagree with your disagreeing with my disagreement with your disagreeing. lol.
Most injectors are rated at 3 bar(43.5 PSI) but newer vehicles are running 4 bar(58 PSI) so that is why your 60lb injectors flow 72lbs at our 58 PSI fuel pressure. Also, they are not exactly 60 or 72, I am sure some are a little higher but 60 would be the least they flow. The ones in my truck flowed 63.4 lbs @ 43.5 PSI or 72.3 lbs @ 58 PSI.
Most injectors are rated at 3 bar(43.5 PSI) but newer vehicles are running 4 bar(58 PSI) so that is why your 60lb injectors flow 72lbs at our 58 PSI fuel pressure. Also, they are not exactly 60 or 72, I am sure some are a little higher but 60 would be the least they flow. The ones in my truck flowed 63.4 lbs @ 43.5 PSI or 72.3 lbs @ 58 PSI.
Jun 18, 2009 | 12:11 PM
#16
OK, what did we learn in physics class?
I disagree also.
Here is some info I have for that.
"Supercharger output is fixed and doesn't increase merely because downstream air charge temperature is lowered. It's the same air by mass. The mass, the weight, the oxygen content of that blast of air discharge by the supercharger cannot be increased. You don't believe it? Try this. Capture the discharged air in a bottle, seal it and weight it at 300*, 200* and -50*. The weight(mass) will not change, the engine can't ingest more air so it will not make more power. Yes, the cooler denser air, at -50* will allow more boost and/or more timing but that air by itself will not make more power.
Now if the air(ambient) temperature entering the supercharger is reduced like driving in Alaska instead of Arizona then the cooler denser air will make more power. About 1% increase for every 10* temperature drop."
That is why I say if he changes the pulley to get back the lost 1-3 lbs do to the FMIC then he would definitely see some good gains. Not doing so might get him a little but you are robbing Peter to give to Paul so to speak.
Here is some info I have for that.
"Supercharger output is fixed and doesn't increase merely because downstream air charge temperature is lowered. It's the same air by mass. The mass, the weight, the oxygen content of that blast of air discharge by the supercharger cannot be increased. You don't believe it? Try this. Capture the discharged air in a bottle, seal it and weight it at 300*, 200* and -50*. The weight(mass) will not change, the engine can't ingest more air so it will not make more power. Yes, the cooler denser air, at -50* will allow more boost and/or more timing but that air by itself will not make more power.
Now if the air(ambient) temperature entering the supercharger is reduced like driving in Alaska instead of Arizona then the cooler denser air will make more power. About 1% increase for every 10* temperature drop."
That is why I say if he changes the pulley to get back the lost 1-3 lbs do to the FMIC then he would definitely see some good gains. Not doing so might get him a little but you are robbing Peter to give to Paul so to speak.
:nunchuk1: I have tried to kill this disagreement!
Jun 18, 2009 | 03:14 PM
#18
If their is less pressure then less air will be forced into the engine even though the same amount of air is available.
Lets say the sc has a 10,000 cfm limit, using Boyle's law no better yet Avogadro's number lets say you have 6.23 x 10 -23 moles of O2, scratch that, of forget it, lol.
How about this a 10lb nitrous bottle will release more oxygen into your motor when the bottle is hot than when it is cold even though it holds the same amount of air when cold or hot. That is why they sell heaters. I am sure someone else can explain it better as I am a layman. Remember the info I put up earlier was quoted from a supercharger manufacturing company.
BTW, I am not saying he will not gain just that he will not gain very much or not as much as he would if he installed the FMIC and changed the pulley to get the boost he lost all with lower IAT's.
Dyno the thing already.
Lets say the sc has a 10,000 cfm limit, using Boyle's law no better yet Avogadro's number lets say you have 6.23 x 10 -23 moles of O2, scratch that, of forget it, lol.
How about this a 10lb nitrous bottle will release more oxygen into your motor when the bottle is hot than when it is cold even though it holds the same amount of air when cold or hot. That is why they sell heaters. I am sure someone else can explain it better as I am a layman. Remember the info I put up earlier was quoted from a supercharger manufacturing company.
BTW, I am not saying he will not gain just that he will not gain very much or not as much as he would if he installed the FMIC and changed the pulley to get the boost he lost all with lower IAT's.
Dyno the thing already.
Jun 18, 2009 | 03:56 PM
#19
I disagree with your disagreeing with my disagreement with your disagreeing. lol.
Most injectors are rated at 3 bar(43.5 PSI) but newer vehicles are running 4 bar(58 PSI) so that is why your 60lb injectors flow 72lbs at our 58 PSI fuel pressure. Also, they are not exactly 60 or 72, I am sure some are a little higher but 60 would be the least they flow. The ones in my truck flowed 63.4 lbs @ 43.5 PSI or 72.3 lbs @ 58 PSI.
Most injectors are rated at 3 bar(43.5 PSI) but newer vehicles are running 4 bar(58 PSI) so that is why your 60lb injectors flow 72lbs at our 58 PSI fuel pressure. Also, they are not exactly 60 or 72, I am sure some are a little higher but 60 would be the least they flow. The ones in my truck flowed 63.4 lbs @ 43.5 PSI or 72.3 lbs @ 58 PSI.
Jun 18, 2009 | 03:57 PM
#20
I know how you feel. . . I had a post yesterday with Boyles law, Charles's law, and the ideal gas law, but just deleted it instead.
One last shot - You take an empty 2 liter bottle, put the cap on it and place it in the freezer. What happens to it? - It deflates because the air is more dense at cooler temps BUT there are the same amount of air molecules inside. The opposite is also true - you could heat that bottle up and it would become pressurized and bulge out BUT there are still the same amount of air molecules inside the bottle.
One last shot - You take an empty 2 liter bottle, put the cap on it and place it in the freezer. What happens to it? - It deflates because the air is more dense at cooler temps BUT there are the same amount of air molecules inside. The opposite is also true - you could heat that bottle up and it would become pressurized and bulge out BUT there are still the same amount of air molecules inside the bottle.