So I Autocrossed My Truck in an SCCA Event This Weekend.... (Pics and Video)
05-29-2018, 05:41 PM
#82
I have really REALLY been struggling with the truck and the front end ride..
Honestly it was soo bad at one point I decided to de-mod and pursue selling the truck. Instead I decided to buckle down on the issue and put some good faith effort into trying to resolve the ride concerns. Specifically the issue with it feeling like I had a pair of basketballs for front wheels/tires. It handles great, corners awesome and when auto-crossing it, it was fine.. Living with the truck the other 98% of the time was challenging though.
I started with ridiculously soft springs when I first installed the coilovers (my fuckup and learning experience).
2nd set of springs - I went to an 8" long 1200# Hypercoil spring (highest spring rate 'on shelf' 8 inch long spring), this helped some, but the springs were constantly in coil-bind and ride suffered. I wanted a longer spring but non existed "on the shelf" and the silence was deafening when I called a couple spring places and asked for something stiffer.
3rd set of springs - I went to a 7" long 1300# Hypercoil spring (highest spring rate 'on shelf' regardless of length).. These helped more, but they dropped the truck down to a ridiculously low ride height. Picture a 4WD truck dragging the FRONT cross-member on parking lot entrances that weren't level.. She cornered well, but FML it was turning into a dedicated track truck..
These springs proceeded to mess up my alignment, cambered the front tires terribly and wore on the tires..With three strikes and no homers, I figured there had to be a better solution. I started calling a couple different spring distributors, most of them just repackage existing springs under their own brand. I called Hyperco in Mississippi and talked to them. Hyperco wanted $550/spring for a custom spring rate spring.. Yes you read that right.. $1100 for a pair custom spring rate springs to fit my application. After I regained consciousness I politely excused myself from the conversation and continued my search.
Ultimately I was able to find a place that was able to engineer and manufacture me a custom set of springs for my truck. I am happy to report that I am happy with the end product, and it didn't bankrupt me either.. I think with shipping it was around 280-290$ for the set of springs, but I feel I have something I can work with now. When it was all said and done the process was NOT timely, in fact it took about 3 months overall to get a set sent to me. There were a couple of miscommunications through the process that slowed things down and I was pretty frustrated at this point and chose to ignore the time delays vs. calling them more frequently. In short, it could have been quicker to my doorstep if I was bird-******* them more.
The process was pretty involved and it included me sending them one of the springs I was most happy with so they could do some spring rate testing on it... They asked me how much I wanted to lift my truck, and how much I wanted to 'firm' up the ride, all of these calculations were used to determine the new projected spring rate.. Anyhow, when it was all done, I did get a set of custom rate springs for my truck and I feel this has helped immensely. Overall they were very helpful at 'dumbing down' the technology for the average guy to help understand it.. They aren't a site supporter so HMU via PM if you have any questions and I can give you the name of the company.
Once I installed the latest set of springs, it helped lift the front end back up and restored my alignment, it also helped a lot with the ride by providing more suspension travel.
So that fixed part of the issue I was having. I swear it felt like the shocks just couldn't keep up with the significant un-sprung weight on these trucks.. There is NO WAY Vi-king (or any coil-over manufacturer for that matter) ever intended these shocks to function with a heavy *** truck wheel, with 255/55/18 tire and big brakes on it.. I have no idea what this would all weigh if it was measured, but I'd guess 160-175# flopping around at the end of the A-arms.. I'm sure that's not what the engineers envisioned when they were building their precision shocks.. LOL
Anyhow, I placed a call to Vi-king and talked to their tech support engineering. While I admit he was polite, I am certain after the call ended I was probably the butt of a number of jokes around their office after the call ended.. LOL!! I mean who decides to sling a (4600#) fat pig 4x4 pick up around cones for fun? It's not a very large segment I am sure. I asked if there was another coil-over application that would better fit my needs, such as a heavier duty application or perhaps a shock with a thicker oil viscosity, etc. While there are a few options on the table, I am not certain I will pursue any of them at this time.
Sooooooooooooooooooooo where am I now? Well that's kind of a loaded question. I have a couple things to tackle and want to get moving on them soon:
Ride Quality
It is better, much better now, here's what I did to fix it.. I zero'd out all the shock settings and started over, turns out there were some gains to be made in ride quality after all, with the double adjustable shocks I am currently running !!
The compression/rebound tech sheet that Vi-king provided me for with the shocks is obviously biased towards a 'car' application. It's completely worthless IMO for a 4WD truck that has been lowered, at least for the roads where I live. For example, Vi-king recommended a 'balanced' compression/rebound setting, i.e. 6/6 or 10/10.
What I have found on my application is its better to really crank up the rebound, and leave the compression very soft. At this point, I am about 2-3 clicks off the max settings for rebound dampening (and I want to crank it in more). And I am like 1 or 2 clicks from the minimum settings for compression dampening and it has helped immensely. Before I'd hit a bump and I swore the truck would rattle your teeth out. The new stiffer springs push the wheel back down harder than the previous (softer) sets, I don't need to rely on compression dampening from the shock to help, this has softened up the ride considerably.
Engine Power
I have a camshaft, valve springs & TBSS intake I want to install... Just waiting to get the Wideband AEM installed first.
Rear Sway Bar
This still needs to happen, I admit it, I've been ignoring this. I am certain there is SOOO much more potential its not even funny, if I could only get her to turn a little bit better.
Rear 4 Link Adjustment
I have to play around with this as well. When I first got he truck back from getting it installed, I admittedly adjusted it for maximum forward bite. Believe it or not, it was noticeable and it will only spin the tires when its wet outside. I think I could back this off a little and get the rear end to free up a little coming around the corners/cones, this would help it turn a little as well.
4L80e Transmission & Turbo Kit
Both need to be accomplished, I want them both, but it's looking like it will be longer term than I want to admit :-(
Last edited by Tydriver; 05-29-2018 at 07:44 PM.
05-30-2018, 07:56 AM
#84
I just scrolled through this thread. I haven't read all the posts, mostly just looked at photos and watched a couple vids. Nice job on everything so far. This autocross stuff is addicting! Since you're just on the other side of the state, maybe we'll run against each other at an event sometime.
Here's a fun event with plenty of runs if you feel like traveling a few hours.
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/autocro...ts-41120472440
Here's a fun event with plenty of runs if you feel like traveling a few hours.
https://www.eventbrite.com/e/autocro...ts-41120472440
Last edited by Slick68; 05-30-2018 at 08:02 AM.
05-30-2018, 06:30 PM
#85
yea the spring rate and shocks are pretty hard to figure out lol luckily from me i have i friend here that ran busch series for a little while and now is a legend in short tract stock car racing. he has offered up his time when not racing to help me get it dialed in, and let me tell you its not all what people think when it comes to spring rate. so say you are running a 12'' spring and you crank it up 2'' the whole rate changes. its all more then i can explain lol but it takes hours and a ton of different springs (thank god he has all of them) he scales and a spring rate tester to tell you what it will be at compressed inch by inch
06-12-2018, 10:12 PM
#87
The place I worked with asked me to send them a spring that I was the most happy with.. This ended up being an off the shelf 7" long Hyperco that was rated at 1300# spring rate..
How they engineer springs is similar to other companies. They take all the suspension measurements into account and they ask for the spring. They then measure the spring I sent them to see what the actual spring rate was.
The 1300# 7" long spring I sent them actually measure at 1350# spring rate.
Because I requested a raise in ride height this affected the proposed spring rate for the new springs.
In addition to the ride height adjustment, I requested a slight increase in rate to combat the roads here..
Long story short they started with 1350# added 15% increase in rate to firm it up, plus they added another multiplier to help with my increase in ride height.
After all this, I asked once what the equivalent spring rate was on these springs that I currently have.. I believe he said they came in around 1675# on a 7" long spring.
I also requested the length of the spring be increased to 9" but that discussion was lost in their engineering department and I ultimately received a 7" long spring. I may revisit this issue in the future and see if I can get a 9" long set made with comparable rates.
Overall I am pretty happy with this set and I believe they will be on the truck for a while.. The ride has improved dramatically and I no longer feel like I am driving a pair of basketballs down the highway when I hit a bump. I believe the increase in rate and the additional time spent tuning on the coil overs has helped this..