Wet/dry
Aug 18, 2006 | 04:10 PM
#11
Well, I have'nt been killed by a drunk driver, so it must not happen, or at least it's not a problem. You see my point?
It is the 10% ethanol in the fuel that is swelling plungers and causing them to stick closed, stick open or stick partially. Not all areas of the country run E10, but soon all will. Also, new cars are being made to run on 85% ethanol, so beware of the new E85 regulations. We are getting more and more reports of sticking noids, all brands are effected. NX is working on a new material that is compatable.
My only point was to get the facts out, dry is safer than wet, period. There are many more scenerios than what has been touched upon where wet will cause problems and dry will not. I have been running n20 since the late 70's and have also never hurt a motor running wet hits, and have run wet more that dry. So, just beware of the risk factor however low you feel it to be.
As for expense, this is another fallacy. Buy a base dry hit and a set of injectors for about 150 and you have approxamately the same $$ wrapped up as a wet kit.
The one area that wet may be superior is when going big on a dry. Some tunning knowledge is needed, however, doable by the most if they are willing.
Torque numbers are another area of fallacy. If you put the same amount of n2o/fuel (read same a/f) in wet kit and a dry kit you will get the same power and torque. Some believe wet kits to make a little more torque. This can be true. however, this is normally due to the average wet kit pulling fuel off the rail and causing an intitial lean spike. We all know that lean equals more torque, so it's not really apples to apples comparison.
With this said, I am not against going wet what so ever, and am still deciding on a wet kit to add into one of my stages.
Robert
It is the 10% ethanol in the fuel that is swelling plungers and causing them to stick closed, stick open or stick partially. Not all areas of the country run E10, but soon all will. Also, new cars are being made to run on 85% ethanol, so beware of the new E85 regulations. We are getting more and more reports of sticking noids, all brands are effected. NX is working on a new material that is compatable.
My only point was to get the facts out, dry is safer than wet, period. There are many more scenerios than what has been touched upon where wet will cause problems and dry will not. I have been running n20 since the late 70's and have also never hurt a motor running wet hits, and have run wet more that dry. So, just beware of the risk factor however low you feel it to be.
As for expense, this is another fallacy. Buy a base dry hit and a set of injectors for about 150 and you have approxamately the same $$ wrapped up as a wet kit.
The one area that wet may be superior is when going big on a dry. Some tunning knowledge is needed, however, doable by the most if they are willing.
Torque numbers are another area of fallacy. If you put the same amount of n2o/fuel (read same a/f) in wet kit and a dry kit you will get the same power and torque. Some believe wet kits to make a little more torque. This can be true. however, this is normally due to the average wet kit pulling fuel off the rail and causing an intitial lean spike. We all know that lean equals more torque, so it's not really apples to apples comparison.
With this said, I am not against going wet what so ever, and am still deciding on a wet kit to add into one of my stages.
Robert
Aug 18, 2006 | 05:46 PM
#12
Originally Posted by 1slow01Z71
there are TONS of threads on this search this forum
Or just offer up your opinion based on your experiance with the topic.
I would highly suggest PMing NXRICKY , they have some of the most complete kits for the LSx based motors that I have seen yet. Easy install and fair price is what I look for when it comes to Nitrous.
Aug 18, 2006 | 05:58 PM
#13
Originally Posted by BlownChevy
Or just offer up your opinion based on your experiance with the topic.
Have seen three people toast a motor with a dry kit and none with a wet kit...
Aug 18, 2006 | 06:29 PM
#14
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Originally Posted by 1slow01Z71
People need to learn how to use the search button, this topic has been beaten to death. There is even a thread on the FIRST page of this forum about 25 threads down. If the search button was used more often there wouldnt have to be all these repeat threads, plus if they have a question later they will know most likely they can answer thier question by using the search button in whatever forum their questions pertains to.
Have seen three people toast a motor with a dry kit and none with a wet kit...
Have seen three people toast a motor with a dry kit and none with a wet kit...
Enough about using the search, please return to the regularly scheduled thread now.
Last edited by XLR8NSS; Aug 18, 2006 at 06:46 PM.
Aug 18, 2006 | 08:52 PM
#15
Originally Posted by 1slow01Z71
People need to learn how to use the search button, this topic has been beaten to death. There is even a thread on the FIRST page of this forum about 25 threads down. If the search button was used more often there wouldnt have to be all these repeat threads, plus if they have a question later they will know most likely they can answer thier question by using the search button in whatever forum their questions pertains to.
Have seen three people toast a motor with a dry kit and none with a wet kit...
Have seen three people toast a motor with a dry kit and none with a wet kit...
If you don’t have anything to contribute to the board, then don’t post. That arrogant reply is just the kind of BS that we don’t need here. I seem to remember an ENTIRE thread about your motor install and questions about the motor you were building....and I am SURE that everything in that thread had been covered a few thousand times on here. The purpose of a technical message board is to interact with other people with experience and the know how to do things. Maybe we should just name it a "search board" instead?
Aug 18, 2006 | 09:29 PM
#16
We now return to our regularyly scheduled thread, already in progress....
The biggest question I have about wet/dry is this:
If you tune for a dry shot, then you are tuned at WOT to run a dry shot, period. If for some reason your bottle is empty or you dont want to hit the juice, you are still tuned to run a dry shot. So now the PCM is pouring in more fuel to compensate for the N2O that "should" be there. Now you have more fuel than needed and youre running rich and losing power.
Tune for a wet shot and you add both fuel and N2O with the flip of a switch. If you decide not to throw the switch then your tune is still running the same N/A AFR and making the power you expect.
Am I wrong? Thats why a wet shot seems better for a daily driver like most of our trucks. You dont have to switch tunes or PCM's. If you have tuning software and know when youre gonna hit the juice then its not a big deal. Just a 1 minute PCM upload and your ready.
The biggest question I have about wet/dry is this:
If you tune for a dry shot, then you are tuned at WOT to run a dry shot, period. If for some reason your bottle is empty or you dont want to hit the juice, you are still tuned to run a dry shot. So now the PCM is pouring in more fuel to compensate for the N2O that "should" be there. Now you have more fuel than needed and youre running rich and losing power.
Tune for a wet shot and you add both fuel and N2O with the flip of a switch. If you decide not to throw the switch then your tune is still running the same N/A AFR and making the power you expect.
Am I wrong? Thats why a wet shot seems better for a daily driver like most of our trucks. You dont have to switch tunes or PCM's. If you have tuning software and know when youre gonna hit the juice then its not a big deal. Just a 1 minute PCM upload and your ready.
Aug 19, 2006 | 12:09 AM
#17
Originally Posted by 1SlowHoe
We now return to our regularyly scheduled thread, already in progress....
The biggest question I have about wet/dry is this:
If you tune for a dry shot, then you are tuned at WOT to run a dry shot, period. If for some reason your bottle is empty or you dont want to hit the juice, you are still tuned to run a dry shot. So now the PCM is pouring in more fuel to compensate for the N2O that "should" be there. Now you have more fuel than needed and youre running rich and losing power.
That is incorrect. The way it works is the MAF reads density/velocity through a heated wire. shooting nitrous across this wire tells/tricks the computer into adding more fuel. Meaning the injector pulse width is increased for a percieved larger flow of air. Now if no nitorus is run the pcm adds as per normal. this is why it is such a sweet deal. Now you can also pull timing with your tune, and only while spraying. You can richen mixture (if nozzle location is not ideal) while spraying only also. So you see, two true tunes in one, where niether bothers the other. Anothere area that is sweet, the dry hit will maintain a/f all the way to empty bottle because of the variable control of the maf/pcm, whereas, wet will go rich using it's static non variable mechanical jet.
Tune for a wet shot and you add both fuel and N2O with the flip of a switch. If you decide not to throw the switch then your tune is still running the same N/A AFR and making the power you expect.
No difference than dry. The problem some have with dry is bad nozzle placement and then a poor MAF reading so they think they have to use the WOT PE multiplier which dose affect n/a. However, there is about 3 seperate ways to tune around this which will not affect n/a tune. Hey how ya going to pull the needed timing on a wet hit without affecting n/a performance, you can't without some help with aftermarket products. now again you can with dry and it will not affect n/a performance.
Am I wrong? Thats why a wet shot seems better for a daily driver like most of our trucks. You dont have to switch tunes or PCM's. If you have tuning software and know when youre gonna hit the juice then its not a big deal. Just a 1 minute PCM upload and your ready.
Yes your wrong. But you are not alone in the misconceptions concerning dry hits. Dry has come a long way, and coming to a strip near you.
The biggest question I have about wet/dry is this:
If you tune for a dry shot, then you are tuned at WOT to run a dry shot, period. If for some reason your bottle is empty or you dont want to hit the juice, you are still tuned to run a dry shot. So now the PCM is pouring in more fuel to compensate for the N2O that "should" be there. Now you have more fuel than needed and youre running rich and losing power.
That is incorrect. The way it works is the MAF reads density/velocity through a heated wire. shooting nitrous across this wire tells/tricks the computer into adding more fuel. Meaning the injector pulse width is increased for a percieved larger flow of air. Now if no nitorus is run the pcm adds as per normal. this is why it is such a sweet deal. Now you can also pull timing with your tune, and only while spraying. You can richen mixture (if nozzle location is not ideal) while spraying only also. So you see, two true tunes in one, where niether bothers the other. Anothere area that is sweet, the dry hit will maintain a/f all the way to empty bottle because of the variable control of the maf/pcm, whereas, wet will go rich using it's static non variable mechanical jet.
Tune for a wet shot and you add both fuel and N2O with the flip of a switch. If you decide not to throw the switch then your tune is still running the same N/A AFR and making the power you expect.
No difference than dry. The problem some have with dry is bad nozzle placement and then a poor MAF reading so they think they have to use the WOT PE multiplier which dose affect n/a. However, there is about 3 seperate ways to tune around this which will not affect n/a tune. Hey how ya going to pull the needed timing on a wet hit without affecting n/a performance, you can't without some help with aftermarket products. now again you can with dry and it will not affect n/a performance.
Am I wrong? Thats why a wet shot seems better for a daily driver like most of our trucks. You dont have to switch tunes or PCM's. If you have tuning software and know when youre gonna hit the juice then its not a big deal. Just a 1 minute PCM upload and your ready.
Yes your wrong. But you are not alone in the misconceptions concerning dry hits. Dry has come a long way, and coming to a strip near you.
Aug 19, 2006 | 12:14 AM
#18
Originally Posted by BlownChevy
Or just offer up your opinion based on your experiance with the topic.
I would highly suggest PMing NXRICKY , they have some of the most complete kits for the LSx based motors that I have seen yet. Easy install and fair price is what I look for when it comes to Nitrous.
I would highly suggest PMing NXRICKY , they have some of the most complete kits for the LSx based motors that I have seen yet. Easy install and fair price is what I look for when it comes to Nitrous.
Robert
Aug 19, 2006 | 01:11 AM
#19
Originally Posted by Robert56
Yes, NXRicky is the NX guru. I go to him myself for some answers when needed. We have also decided to carry the full NX product line. Best products and best product support. Ricky is working on dry kit from NX as we speak. NX may soon have an in house dry kit.
Robert
Robert
sweet! He has edumacated me on quite a bit of Nitrous tech! Glad you popped into this thread, your input is VERY welcome!
Aug 19, 2006 | 07:53 AM
#20
Originally Posted by Robert56
Well, I have'nt been killed by a drunk driver, so it must not happen, or at least it's not a problem. You see my point?
It is the 10% ethanol in the fuel that is swelling plungers and causing them to stick closed, stick open or stick partially. Not all areas of the country run E10, but soon all will. Also, new cars are being made to run on 85% ethanol, so beware of the new E85 regulations. We are getting more and more reports of sticking noids, all brands are effected. NX is working on a new material that is compatable.
My only point was to get the facts out, dry is safer than wet, period. There are many more scenerios than what has been touched upon where wet will cause problems and dry will not. I have been running n20 since the late 70's and have also never hurt a motor running wet hits, and have run wet more that dry. So, just beware of the risk factor however low you feel it to be.
As for expense, this is another fallacy. Buy a base dry hit and a set of injectors for about 150 and you have approxamately the same $$ wrapped up as a wet kit.
The one area that wet may be superior is when going big on a dry. Some tunning knowledge is needed, however, doable by the most if they are willing.
Torque numbers are another area of fallacy. If you put the same amount of n2o/fuel (read same a/f) in wet kit and a dry kit you will get the same power and torque. Some believe wet kits to make a little more torque. This can be true. however, this is normally due to the average wet kit pulling fuel off the rail and causing an intitial lean spike. We all know that lean equals more torque, so it's not really apples to apples comparison.
With this said, I am not against going wet what so ever, and am still deciding on a wet kit to add into one of my stages.
Robert
It is the 10% ethanol in the fuel that is swelling plungers and causing them to stick closed, stick open or stick partially. Not all areas of the country run E10, but soon all will. Also, new cars are being made to run on 85% ethanol, so beware of the new E85 regulations. We are getting more and more reports of sticking noids, all brands are effected. NX is working on a new material that is compatable.
My only point was to get the facts out, dry is safer than wet, period. There are many more scenerios than what has been touched upon where wet will cause problems and dry will not. I have been running n20 since the late 70's and have also never hurt a motor running wet hits, and have run wet more that dry. So, just beware of the risk factor however low you feel it to be.
As for expense, this is another fallacy. Buy a base dry hit and a set of injectors for about 150 and you have approxamately the same $$ wrapped up as a wet kit.
The one area that wet may be superior is when going big on a dry. Some tunning knowledge is needed, however, doable by the most if they are willing.
Torque numbers are another area of fallacy. If you put the same amount of n2o/fuel (read same a/f) in wet kit and a dry kit you will get the same power and torque. Some believe wet kits to make a little more torque. This can be true. however, this is normally due to the average wet kit pulling fuel off the rail and causing an intitial lean spike. We all know that lean equals more torque, so it's not really apples to apples comparison.
With this said, I am not against going wet what so ever, and am still deciding on a wet kit to add into one of my stages.
Robert