smart guys!! got some mp112 charts, some ax2300charts too!!
 

http://www.automotive.eaton.com/prod...rols/M112.html

it's not the mp112 so who knows what the diferences are but all the charts only goto 12000rpm, seems like someone around here is spining one up to 16000rpm!! no idea what that would do either, i am going to email these guys and see if they have a chart for the mp112.

ok, now i found a link to the mp112 http://www.magnusonproducts.com/mp112.htm this chart goes to 14000rpm so lets assume that is the max rpm.



now here is the whipple one, good luck with this eye bogeling chart. http://www.lysholm.se/PDF/diagram_lys2300ax.pdf

i am studing this crap and may be able to come up with my own conclusion but while i am at it maybe you smart guys can figure this out for me. assuming a max rpm of 14000rpm how much hp(air flow) will each of these support. i know the mp112 will have an intercooler after it so the outlet temps will be alot less and while this is important it isn't realy an indicator of max hp. i think airflow is.

Re: smart guys!! got some mp112 charts, some ax2300charts too!!
 

ok, did a little of my own studying, correct me if i am wrong.

VE is about 2-3% better for the whipple at 10psi and 14000rpm

max cfm for the mp112 at 14000rpm and 10psi is about 820cfm
max cfm for the whipple at 14000rpm and 10psi is about 1059cfm

outlet temp for the mp112 at 14000rpm and 10psi is about 220deg
outlet temp for the whipple at 14000rpm and 10psi is about 212deg(had to deduct the 20deg c)

looks to me like the whipple can support quite abit more hp, just needs an intercooler or some nice chemical intercooling(nitrous)

from my experince with the whipple i see no way the mp112 can efectively feed a low compresion 400+ci motor, yea it would feed it but just at modest boost levels(under 10psi for sure) i was spining my whipple to 15000rpm to see 11psi on a BONE STOCK 6.0.

any other conclusions to be had here?

Re: smart guys!! got some mp112 charts, some ax2300charts too!!
 

Hmmm...can I be a smart guy. :confused: :p

Just extending the rpm speed out on the power graph of the mp112 shows that it might put out ~850hp at 16000rpm. That depends on how efficient it is at those speeds though. If it starts to get too inefficient the heat will really start to build up and without an effective way to cool it the power curve will not rise on that steady slope. Size and efficiency of the motor its on plays a part also. It'd be real nice if they had a chart like the one for the 2300ax.

I wonder if the 3300 series lysholm will spin to 14000rpm like the 2300. If so it would probably put out 1000hp.

Re: smart guys!! got some mp112 charts, some ax2300charts too!!
 

how doed cfm relate to hp?

here is a link to the 3300ax http://www.lysholm.se/PDF/diagram_lys3300ax.pdf it maxes out at 11000rpm but flows 1225cfm at 10psi and shows 96% eficincy and a prety cool 167deg, a nice 100shot and that would be ambient temp i bet :D, i want a 3300!!

Re: smart guys!! got some mp112 charts, some ax2300charts too!!
 

This is a rough estimate to convert cfm to hp?

cfm * .69 = hp

Here is some good reading right here. :D For a turbo but, the math can still be applied to a supercharger.

http://www.grapeaperacing.com/GrapeA.../turbosize.cfm

Re: smart guys!! got some mp112 charts, some ax2300charts too!!
 

i just noticed they have a KW rating on the whipple stuff, that much be how much it takes to drive the unit. for all 3 blowers the aprox hp at max rpm and 10psi are

mp112 14000rpm > 70hp
2300 14000rpm > 77hp
3300 11000rpm > 80hp

looks like the diference in drive hp isn't really significant, if there was an easy way to bolt the 3300 up that would be prety sweet set up for a large displacement high boost set up.

Re: smart guys!! got some mp112 charts, some ax2300charts too!!
 

looks to me like extending that chart would get around 1000cfm or 690hp - 80drive hp. 610fwhp if you spin the crap out of it. thats not going to do it for me. you know what i know, why isn't this adding up?

Re: smart guys!! got some mp112 charts, some ax2300charts too!!
 

DOH! disregard what I said above about the power output thing. I was thinking lb/min on the power side of that 112 chart. :bang: I just went back and looked and realize it's parasitic power loss for the blower. :zzz: Good night. :)

Re: smart guys!! got some mp112 charts, some ax2300charts too!!
 

The Lightning uses a similar blower to the MP112 (same size rotors but different housing) It is a large upgrade to go to the "twin screw" type blower such as the Kenny Bell Blowzilla on the Lightning. Wouldn't the best set up be to go with the Radix base and a Autorotor "twin screw" blower. Some machine work would have to be done to make it fit and work.

Re: smart guys!! got some mp112 charts, some ax2300charts too!!
 

sleepersilverado did a lot of research and said that something like that could be done, where the radix system could be used, but replace the blower with a kenny bell. He also said, for all that money that would be put into that setup, a nice custom turbo setup could be done.
Also, I thought I read somewhere that the kenny bells get really hot. :confused:

Re: smart guys!! got some mp112 charts, some ax2300charts too!!
 

I will be able to post something about efficiency of intercooling a 2300ax Lysholm in about a week. "MetalMan" (Brett) and I are finishing the project on my truck tonight. It uses a Spearco 2-230 air/water intercooler and 3" aluminum mandrel bends. I know some of you have known about this project, and I apologize for it being a month overdue -school strated and this kind of took a back seat for a while.
I would be able to test boosted air and after the intercooler air temps. for efficiency. I would like to compare these temperature numbers to the Radix. I think mine will kill it :devil: as it is not getting heat soaked by the heads. I never got it on a dyno for bef/aft numbers, but temp readings should give good data to look over.

PS. If anyone ever wanted to do a 3.3L Lysholm on top of an aftercooler like the Radix setup, it could be done. I think there are better ways of doing it, but that would be very clean. I think it would cost alot like sleek silverado mentioned though. I too would go with a turbo over that setup for the cost being about the same.

Dont the 8.1L kits use a 3300 blower? I can get hp before and after numbers on those setups for you guys.

Re: smart guys!! got some mp112 charts, some ax2300charts too!!
 

https://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL22/...7/34487986.jpg
Here is the 2300 setup. From the Truck Builder magazine testing, they made 512hp 740lbs on the stock pulley. **look at that pulley though. i don't know how you would get much smaller. I guess I can't find stock 8.1L dynos :(

Re: smart guys!! got some mp112 charts, some ax2300charts too!!
 

can't wait to see some pic's!!

the 8.1 whipple kit uses the same 2.3 blower.

Re: smart guys!! got some mp112 charts, some ax2300charts to
 

Ryan get some pics of your setup. i am going to run a pro charger and fab up a air to water intercooler. not 100% sure of how to do it yet want to see some ideas.
Ryan

Edit: damn it you beat me by 3 min. any ways i did do some research about using a KB blozilla compresser for the cobra in place of the eaton on the radix system. It could be done with some custom machined parts. But i dont think you can just buy bits and pieces of the radix system. and the KB head unit alone was lite 3-4000 $ on there web site. i was close to having it all figured out but then realized how much it would cost and decided if i was going to spend that much it would be on custom twin turbos.i will eventualy custom fab an ati settup i feel it will work better for my application.

Re: smart guys!! got some mp112 charts, some ax2300charts too!!
 

If it is a 2300ax blower, I guess that would explain the pulley size and the need for an intercooler :D

I will make a post soon. It is insane!!!

Re: smart guys!! got some mp112 charts, some ax2300charts too!!
 

Here you go sleepersilverado:
http://www.meacham.pointclark.net/Pana0027.jpg
http://www.meacham.pointclark.net/im...urtdynolow.jpg
This is TIRBRNR's setup and what they made after intercooling. The setup is very similar to an ATI kit, so I guess it could look something like this. btw I like this setup :)
HERE is the post I got pictures from.

Re: smart guys!! got some mp112 charts, some ax2300charts too!!
 

sweet thanks i could not remember who did that.

Re: smart guys!! got some mp112 charts, some ax2300charts too!!
 

Hey Parish, I think in order to do this you would have to have the exact same inlet temps. going into each blower. It is a linear thing, and I am not sure if the 20* can just be subtracted from the Whipple output. I know this will sound a little bit engineering-ish, but that was an Input variable for their calculated output temp.

To explain: you cannot have f(x)=2x+4 an equation of output temp. and then plug in x=20*. This would yield f(x)=2(20*)+4 => 44*and then subtract the 20* to get an output temp of 24*. In the end, I think at that 14000rpm and 20* inlet temp, the 2300ax should be around 170*-180* output temperature.

The Magnuson chart is pretty non-scientific compared to the Whipple chart. They are missing an input for their Delta Temp Chart on the Radix. You cannot find temperature output of a blower without knowing the temperature input :confused: I think customer service made that chart :D

Re: smart guys!! got some mp112 charts, some ax2300charts too!!
 

mubo jumbo to me! seems to me there is a spacific temp rise based on compresion of the air and then factor in the efficency to add even more heat, i dont think the intake temp is going to make that much diference in the delta.

i think the bigger diference you are not seeing here is that at the stated psi and rpm's the whipple is pumping alot more air, over 200cfm more, i gues it would be better to compare the delta temps at the same flow, not the same psi and rpm.

if you look for 820cfm at 10psi then you only have to spin the whipple to ~11000rpm with a temp delta of about 180deg f

i am kind of talking out my ass here so make your own conclusions and tell me what you think.

Re: smart guys!! got some mp112 charts, some ax2300charts too!!
 

:cheers: that's cool, I know the Whipple graph is confusing, but I think I am reading it correctly.
I think you are correct in that the readings would be a better comparison if looked at by cfm rather than psi and rpm.

Are you doing turbo(s) still? Now that is something I have not looked into before -those turbo maps confuse me :D

Re: smart guys!! got some mp112 charts, some ax2300charts too!!
 

Turbo maps are alot easier to read than that crazy Whipple chart, took me while to figure that one out. :D

Who knows what parish is gonna do, the guy changes his mind more than some females I know. :eek2: :p :jest:

Re: smart guys!! got some mp112 charts, some ax2300charts too!!
 

WHAT? yea i change my mind alot but i am still in the planing stages and now is a good time to change my mind dont ya think? how many parts have you bought to just sell after changing your mind? :D

Re: smart guys!! got some mp112 charts, some ax2300charts too!!
 

DOH!! :bang: I just got OWNED. :jest:

Re: smart guys!! got some mp112 charts, some ax2300charts too!!
 

Just addin here burt the blower maps are temp. deltas, You have to add the ambient air temp to the output delta to get total system temps. the output on the mp112 would be round 300 degrees with an ambient intake temp of 80 degree. and just looking @ thiose graphs and remembering my physics classes from college your looking @ the base of an exponetial curve(basically meaning its impossible to extrapolate the the temp gain curve @14,000 and 16,000 rpm blower speeds w/o more info it could possibly double the temp gain @16,000 output which would be way past the point of dimishing returns.(400+ degree temps) I love my RADIX but I think you'll need a pair of them to get to 1000hp.