Tranny build, gonna have some questions
 

So without a doubt, my 4l60e has slipped into oblivion and is no longer driveable. I am compiling a list of parts so I can rebuilt-up the tranny.

I have searched for hours and have used lists from other threads to help, but there are a few unanswered questions I will periodically have. If you guys can help clarify a few htings I would appreciate it greatly.

1. Clutch packs

A. Is there a reason to upgrade the other clutch pack, or is it only the 3-4 that poses a problem?

B. what is the difference in performance and/or longevity in the standard pack vs. the thinner pack with 10 plates?

2. Output Shafts

A. I Have a 5.3 extended cab. Is there any doubt that the hardened shaft would be acceptable for a fully bolted (heads, cam etc.) engine, or would billet be the way to go?


I will eventually have more questions, thank you.

I would stay with the stock borg warner high energy clutches.

More clutches = thinner material, more prone to delamination and warping than a stock thicker clutch.

Get your self stock clutches, beast sunshell, alum accumulator piston, upgraded servos and a good shift kit, ( Trans Go or Superior)

What kind of power do you expect to make???

the short story is:

I have headers, intake, exhuast and Nelson tune. Installed HD-2 shift kit and Yank 3000 TT. lasted for several years of absolute abuse untill the output shaft grenaded after I put some Toyo Proxes on and it started hooking up more.

THEN i bought a ReMan from Ebay which lasted 4 months, untill now, where its slipping os bad I cant drive it.

SO, long term plans, WCCH 5.3 heads, long tube headers, cam etc. Cam will be going in sometime in the near (6 months) future. heads, not for quite some time, if ever. They are expensive, and if I cant do the ones I want, I wont do them.


the clutches I was looking at are the Raybestos Blue PLate Specials. any comment on these?

I was originally looking at the Alto's, but I have seen enough negative coments to eliminate them from my list.

well ive had my truck cammed stalled and almost every bolt on for about a year.. my 2-4 band went bye bye after 8 months after i cammed and stalled it.. i had my cuz whos mechanic rebuilt it with
2-4 wide band
beast sunshell
alum accumulators
3-4 alto clutches
change 29 element sprag
13 vane pump kit
hd-2 shift kit
corvette servo
4th gear servo
new reverse input drum
and i forget what else..

very happy with is.. still running on stock input and output shafts..

Ive had terrible, absolutley terrible luck with 3 sets of Alto 3-4 clutches.

PM ZIPPY, he can put together a parts list for ya for a badass trans.

He built my first 60e a few years ago behind my cammed / turboed Z71 and it was great.


Also see your stock trans lasted a while, see what im talking about how stock clutches hold great with supporting mods??

Stay with the borg warner high energy clutches in the 3-4. Anything else is risky IMO. 8 frictions is about all you want in this set since the drum clearance is small and you have to go with thin steels. That's the real problem with 9 and 10 clutch 3-4s... the frictions are pretty much fine, but the steels get so thin (even with the thinnest ring and pressure plate) that they are much more prone to warping when they get hot. Warped steels = no clearance in the pack and it burns up in no time. Simple as that.

The parts 05gmc listed are the standard upgrades for this trans. Get the wide band with a NEW drum that it rides on... don't try it with a used drum that had the standard width band. Make sure you get the borg warner 29 element sprag, not the cheap off-brand names. Use only the corvette servo or the sonnax 2nd servo (not the superior one, too harsh) and the sonnax dual piston 4th servo. You can use the standard tan clutches in everything else but the 3-4.

And get a trans cooler, the one listed in the sticky (the 40k gvwr one) is the one to get.
Other than that, don't go nuts on the 1-2 accumulator setting and you should be good to go.

This is the list I have so far:

1. Borg Warner 29 element sprag
2. Transgo HD2 shift kit
3. Borg Warner high energy clutches for 3-4
4. new forward and low/reverse clutches, OEM stock
5. Oversized Alto Carbon Fiber band and new Drum (if not a good choice, make suggestions please)
6. Heavy Duty reaction carrier shaft
7. BEAST reaction shell
8. Vette servo
9. Sonnax 4th servo
10. gaskets/seals etc.
11. Hardened input shaft and drum
12. Billet or Hardened output shaft

13. sending the TT3000 back to Yank for a cut and clean.

14. I have a B&M cooler (in the box), but not sure if I have the mounting hardware still. Either way a cooler will be going in this time.


confused on things I have seen. Need some clarification on these please:
1. new solenoids and harness. how critical is this, do these fail?

2. Billet anchor pin for the band. is this necessary, is this even a weak point? the pin is $20

3. High RPM 3-4 spring pack. Is this what comes in the HD-2 shift kit?

4. Input drum reinforcement kit. Have not been able to find this, and is it necessary if I get a hardened input drum?



questions:

1. what pump upgrades, if any, would be a good idea? I am not familiar with the weakness of the pumps.



My Tune

The pCM was sent to Nelson. I do not recall exactly, but I believe there was a brief description and the line pressure was increased. Also, I installed 2 of the 3 shims for the servo, and the tires chirped when going to second. I have found some threads that suggest this isn't an entirely good idea.

Im thinking to leave the tune where it is, but only install 1 shim this time.

thoughts? I like the hard shift, and its fun to watch peoples' eyes bug out of their head, but if its harmful I dont have a problem toning it down a bit.

also with my previous output shaft failure, 80% of the torque management was removed. How much TM do you guys typically run?


thanks for all the advice so far.

I have all my torque management removed. I heard chirping tires was bad I removed all the washers/ shims now it shifts perfect. And the 3-4 clutch springs do cone with the hd-2 kit but I never installed them I heard that was for high reving applications but I might be wrong.

1) New solenoids (including the EPC) are a good idea if you've got over 50k miles or the trans destroyed itself previously... hard to clean debris out of these things. Heck get a whole new harness and all solenoids. no sense in spending $1k+ on hard parts and end up having among the cheapest stuff take the trans out.

2) Never seen the need for these myself. If the factory one looks a little beat up then go ahead with the billet piece. my pin looked fine so it got reused. Again, $20 isn't a budget breaker.

3) I hear conflicting opinions on these since they are more stiff than stock (which counteracts the force of the apply ring... somewhat lessening the grip of the 3-4 clutch). FWIW i kept the factory spring packs in mine. I don't spin over 6k rpm and didn't see the need. I think it was these that i had to grind off a little bit to work with the 8-pack 3-4. no problems so far.

4) If that's the reinforcement collar that goes over the splined tower at the input shaft, you will need to get the right piston that fits around it. I can't remember exactly what it is, but the factory pistons won't work. I didn't use it in mine... if the input drum breaks I'm done with it and swapping to a 4L80E.

1) Under different circumstances I would've had the pump professionally done. The biggest upgrades are the very stiff slide spring that keeps the pump at full output at high rpm and the transgo rings. I know FLT sells (or at least used to) a machined pump to their specs, ready to go. You might have to send yours in to them. With that said, i just disassembled mine, replaced the rotor and vanes, checked for flatness, and reinstalled with the transgo parts. I'm expecting this trans to grenade at some point so i didn't spend the money letting someone else do it.

I left the line pressure settings alone. Just had the adaptive shift removed and left in about 30% of the torque management. You kinda feel the torque reduction on the shifts, but it's barely noticeable. All gears hit solid and firm, but not harsh.

Edit: forgot to add, if you don't have them already, get the latest ATSG rebuild manual and the video from technicalvideos DOT net. You get the two in a package deal. I watched the video at least 5 times and studied the manual along with it, making notes in the margins, before tackling the job. Everything went smooth. You will have to rent, buy, or make a spring compressor for the return spring packs. i had a bunch of extra metal around the shop so i just made my own.

so in my best interest, if the the line pressure was turned up, I will have them set it to defualt factory settings, then tune the shift firmness with the servo shims?

I have not been able to find a "drum reinforcement kit". Im wondering if I hsould just by a hardened drum. the hardened drum and hardened input shaft are like $160.

I definitely have a budget. I am not trying to buy every piece possible, but I also dont have the money to keep doing this so I want to do it right without getting uneccessary parts.


thanks for everyones help so far.