4l80e vs 4x4 4wd 4l80e. whats the difference?
 

I found a cheap 4x4 4l80e to replace my trashed one. I am not sure this can be a direct swap though. I'm hoping I could just take the old output shaft and tail shaft off of my old 2wd unit and put it on the new 4wd unit.Is this possible? Vince?

:chug:

THe output shaft and rear case extension are different. Not sure of anything else. If none of that is trashed in the 80e you currently have perhaps they can be swapped over to the 4WD tranny you buy. I am pretty sure that is it... but ya, Vince would know for sure :nod:

when you say"rear case extension" is that another word for tail housing?

Yes, That is what he is reffering to.

What year is the 4x4 unit and what year is the thrashed unit???

All you do is change the output shaft and install a 2wd extension housing nothing fancy. The case is the same 2wd or 4wd regardless of year model.

I ask because im intrested in the 4x4 parts.

the old one is an 03, the new one is said to be an 06 but it has a 07 on the tag so it should be an 07

ok I would be intrested in the 4x4 output shaft and possibly the adapter if it's still attached to the case when you get it.

btw whats wrong with the 03???

Well for starters, the bell housing broke when I blew the drive shaft 15 minutes after I did the 4l80e conversion, which I found out when I was dropping the trans. 4 of the seven bolts held pieces of the bell housing to the engine when the transmission free'd up from the engine. Secondly, the clutches burned because I didn't utilize the longer 4l80e rear cooler line fitting in the rear of the case. So obviously I can't rebuild this unit. I can only salvage hard parts and the shift kit. So-Cal, where are you located?

You do need to make sure that both output shafts use the same style lube systems. The later 97^ shafts do not have a lube hole in them while the earlier shafts do have a lube hole in them. Also when converting from a 4x4 to a 2wd you will need to install a lube orifice in the back of the case for the extension housing bushing. If you do not do this you will smoke the extension housing bushing and also a yoke. HTH Vince

Orange County

Excellent Tech Vince!!! Can you describe the lube orifice you are reffering to in the back of the case, Is this like swaping to a different bushing to allow oil to flow past, Or do you have to drill a hole or something???

Thanks Again for your Vast Knowledge!!!

THANKS VINCE!!!!You are the man and as 1FastBrick said is that a hole to be drilled? How about those lube orifices?

Yes I guess its like a bushing so to speak. IMO its more like a little freeze plug with a hole in it with a rubber seal bonded to it. The seal is there to seal the extension housing to the case. With doing this it allows lube oil to lubricate the extension housing bushing for the 2wd yoke. If you look at this pic you will see the 4x4 freeze plug that will have to be replaced with the seal I mentioned above.
Attachment 144771

A pictures worth a thousand words!!! Thanks, I was thinking that the rear tail shaft bushing was different.
Much more obvious when you can see it.

I found another difference in the 4x4 and the 2wd. The left is the output carrier assembly from a 2wd, the right is the output carrier assembly from a 4x4. Notice the extra gear on the 2wd. This is a Reluctor wheel which works in conjunction with the rear 4L80E Speed sensor, 1991-UP. This is what measures output speed on the 2wd models. As you know, the 4x4 models have a rear vss dummy sensor, (i'm not sure if this is the case for all 4l80e's) so there would be no use for this reluctor wheel in a 4x4 being that the output speed is measures somewhere in the transfer case.

That being said the difference b/n a 2wd and a 4x4 are

2wd:
1. reluctor wheel
2. rear vss vehicle speed sensor
3. output shaft (varies depending on model) i.e. bolt on, slip yoke, year, chassis, etc
4. Lube cup orifice

4x4:

1. no reluctor wheel
2. rear vss dummy
3. output shaft (I think there are two different lengths) possibly because of two different transfer cases. np205 and np231?
4. lube cup has no orifice.

Rear the Vince's post regarding lube orifices and output shaft orifices in the thread.

Let me know if I am incorrect or if there is anything I left out. thanks guys.

Also, does anybody know if the relucor wheel is pressed on or what the process of installing would be? I am curious to know if I can just take the output carrier assembly from my 2wd unit and putting it in my 4x4 unit. Would they be incompatible like mismatching a bearing and race?

High five I finally learned to attach a photo to a post. What a pita resizing, finding a program, etc.

Let me know. Thanks guys!

If I am not mistaken you should be able to swap the rear planetary between 03 2wd - 07 4x4 with out an issue. Vince would probally be better able to answer that.

I believe there pressed on but you may not want to mess with it. If you damage the reluctor you will be in a world of hurt.

chris092183 very good point on the reluctor for the 2wd model. You can swap the planets providing that they are both from a 99 and later unit. Sonnax in the past advertised this sensor ring but I cant seem to find it on their site. This is the part # from one of my books. 34880-01 Its a pressed fit and is easy to do and I have done it in the past. I do apologize for not mentioning this. As far as the 4x4 shafts the only difference is early and late style. If you have an early unit it would have a lube hole in the bushing area of the shaft. In your case there is not a lube hole because of the 97 and up center lube hydraulics. HTH Vince

No need to apologize, I have gained much knowledge from your posts and look forward to reading more of them. How would you remove the orifice cup?

Thanks Vince

Regarding the lube cup orifice, I suggest you buy a 2wd unit if you want 2wd so you don't have to try to remove the cup from a 4x4 unit. It is a major PITA. I have been trying to get that little bastard out for about 3 hours without damaging the case.

See post 23 and 25


The 4x4/4wd unit has a steel (i think) cup which is different from the 2wd/2x4 lube cup orifice. the 2wdis made of a way softer material which canbe removed easily, so guys converting from 2wd to 4wd will have a way easier time.

Builders let me know what you think.

Does this mean its almost back together???

Haha no I took a break for a while because my back has been to effed up to sit while I work on the trans. I finally got the cup out at about 3:00 today and then proceeded with the build only to find that the company I got the parts from gave me the wrong thrust washers. I did pick up another 2005 4l80e last night though :nod:

The trans should be done by Sunday if I can make it to the trans store and if my back doesn't give me shit. but it won't go in till I get my Circle D. Man I can't wait for surgery.

Its not easy as you already know. I have tried a few different methods. (1)Installing a screw in the plug with a small hole and use a dent puller. (2)Drilled a hole and tapped it with a small bolt size. Then used a socket larger than the plug with a long bolt to pull it out. (3)Small bushing cutter to cut it out so it would turn and I could pry it out. The first two methods in some cases result into method #3.:eyes:

I will say if you get into the case some with trying to cut it out you should still be ok. The 2wd cup plug has a small flange on it and should seal to the back side of the case. The inside bore is not really critical at this point. Then when you install the extension housing it really has no where to go. Keep in mind this is an orifice to regulate how much oil feeds the bushing in the extension housing.

Keep in mind that the 2wd orificed cup plug also has a seal bonded to it. This is used to seal the case to the extension housing. I would not recommend just drilling a hole in the freeze plug because I think you might loose some oil pressure at the extension housing bushing.

Lol I tried the methods 1 and 2 but no luck. the screws/bolts kept breaking. I finally got it out with something similar to option 3. I cut a chisel in half as well as grinding a screwdriver down and used those to cut away at it. it was a major pita. I was worried I'd damage the case.

In regards to the drilling a small hole, I guess I left some info out. I was thinking of just placing an o-ring around the cup plug because I didn't think too much pressure would seep through the bushing being that the fluid passage is so small. I guess it's better safe than sorry though, a bonded cup will not leak whereas my initial idea might propose a problem.

After this I no I will never buy another 4x4 to convert to 2wd lol

Thanks Vince. Too bad you're all the way in the mid west, I'd like to learn some tricks on how to build these trans.

I will edit/delete that post in case someone tries to do it this way. In the case that it doesn't work for someone, I would hate for it to be because of a method not tried and true.:nod:

Mr Vince: This is sort of on and off this topic I guess LOL!
 

I have a good 1993 4L80E two wheel drive out of 3500 Vandura. I also have a 96 Chevy1500 with a 4 L 60 e four-wheel drive. The 4 L 60 e the guy who owned this truck before me told me it needed a torque converter seal. I live in North Eastern Arizona so basically my entire surroundings is nothing but beach with no ocean. So I prefer to do a job like this with my rolling Gantry and just lift the motor up and forward rather than pulling the tranny and t-case. So I did on my top side and then got underneath to pull the torque converter bolts Bill bolts and dust cover and I basically found that this transmission leaks pretty much everywhere in the world except for the torque converter seal on the front of the transmission that is anyway. So my question is a little bit the opposite of the question of this thread. Can I put the 4 by 4 tail shaft on my 4 L 80 e two wheel drive and then marry my transfer case to it? All input would be appreciated!