Adding No2 to Maggie setup, who can help?
 

Hi guys, I'm thinking of adding a nitrous setup to help me pull better in 2nd and 3rd gears. For you guys running Maggies, what would you recommend and what has worked for you? What are the pros and cons to doing this? I'm thinking maybe a 50 or 75 dry single jet. Thanks for any input.

I sprayed a 50 dry shot in my 04 SSS with a 2.8 pulley ...I tapped the rear of the j tube with a fogger nozzle...I was running a Walbro 255 with siemens deka 60lb injectors and tuned for it...I used a window switch from 3000-6000..and had zero motor issues(tranny was a different story..lol). I went from a 7.89 @ 88mph to a 7.76 @ 92 mph fwiw....

Interesting. How does a window switch work and how do you set it up?

I've thought about this as well. I want to run a small shot but did'nt know if and how much the tune would have to do with it. I see where alot of N/A guys run a pretty good size shot on just the factory tune.

If the tune was setup for nitrous would that mean u would have to run nitrous everytime u went into boost or just spray it when u wanted to?

If the tune was setup for nitrous would that mean u would have to run nitrous everytime u went into boost or just spray it when u wanted to?[/QUOTE]


A nitrous tune would just be a conservitive tune with less timing in it. So you wouldent have to spray everytime u going in to boost.

You could also set your tow haul button to be your nitrious tune.

I believe tow/haul only controls transmission settings, so you wouldn't be able to adjust A/F.

Thanx for clearing that up for! Is it true that a 50 shot on F/I is like a 75 shot N/A. I thought I read a thread a while back where F/I multiplies the shot. Could have been something else I was thinking of though.

What I'm trying to say is F/I can run a smaller shot with greater H/P increase than N/A would get from a bigger shot?

Right. You can't change the A/F. Don't know what I was thinking. :bang:

This is what I've been reading. If NO2 is not your primary power adder then a smaller shot is probably in order. If you're running boost, it acts as a multiplier for the NO2 shot. On the downside, I've read that nitrous can erode the coating of the blower impellers. That being said, it sounds like a pretty awesome combo for the occasional user.

I'd sure like to hear from some guys who are running both... especially whether they think it's worth doing or not.

i've read that both meth and no2 can erode the coating as well. This is why I was looking at adding them to the spacer that trick makes. That way it would bypass the impellers and maybe even multiply the shot even more. Like how some say that plate kits hit harder than a nozzle. Don't know just brain storming.

Small shots don't multiply like larger one will.
N2o is trying to expand blowers are trying to compress. So injecting post blower/ic can raise your boost level.
How much depends on the shot. 50/75 will not raise much if any.
150/200 would be a kick in the pants. This talk about eating coating? How crappy is the coating if nitrous pulls it off. I have heard nitrous eats the coatings and fuel washes the bearings etc etc.
Now methanol I could believe. That is very corrosive.

Trick which would u prefer running it pre or post blower?

Aslo, I've only seen guys with blowers run a small shot is there a reason for that or can u run a bigger shot like 100 to 150?

Just curious. Were u running the Walbro prior to your huffer? Also, did u change out to 60#'ers just for the spray (or the combo of the 2)? Does that make sense? Oh ya, was that w/. a Radix 112?
Know I gotta go convert that to 1/4. :D

As supersilverado04 said, I was told a nitrous tune would just be a conservative tune w/. less timing in it. So you wouldn't have to spray everytime u go into boost. Think about it; you'd go broke refilling the bottle & the safety factor involved.

If you're running a Maggie & juice, from most of my reading, stay w/. a 50 or 75 shot. I know it's been posted before, but if IIRC, no one on here is running both & over a 100 shot. I'd believe the person that told me that too. :D

Even so, when I get my Maggie up & running, if I foresee the need for spray to reach my ET goals, I've no plans to go over 75 shot. Not cause guys aren't over that, but cause I feel I'll be where where I need to be. :burnout:

The pro to me is u run faster. Cons to doing this? More stress on parts & of course, N2O fillups & kit cost itself. I'd like to see what 50 or 75 dry single jet u go w/. :lurk:

You shouldn't be spraying under 3k either.
Trever runs both, as does 1Bear. Not sure who else, but he does.

I knew meth was (supposed) to wear the coating off the rotors. I guess this was more serious on earlier generation Maggies. Not sure if that meant a Radix 112 produced in 2004 vs one made in 2010, or if a TVS has better teflon coating. I really to write down some of what I read, so then it doesn't look like hearsay, but I read a bunch, so that'd be a lot of writing. I wasn't real familiar that spray did it too, not as bad at least. While Magnuson may frown on meth & their units, how many have actually seen the pics of potential damage caused? I'd love to see any pics posted, cause 1) I'm curious of before & after meth or for that matter, nitrous. and 2) Cause I'm considering doin this. :D

Interesting. Very. :hmmm:

On a FI (fuel inj.) ride, I've heard fuel wash isn't an issue like on a carb. I couldn't verify, cause I never had both apart to compare.

I was typing my (previous) long post & u fired back first. :D

I think u need to clarify, from a power standpoint or cause you're concerned about potential coating damage? If the latter, Rick is sayin to go post blower. Cause otherwise, it'd be injected before rotors.

Most everyone on PT I was told doesn't run > 75 shot on a Maggie. See my previous quote to swift700 on who does run both a Maggie & spray.

Thanx fast, I was just wondering about that on the tune cause I was taking into account that if u had to spray it all the time I would'nt want to. I was just confused about the tune and keeping it safe in and out of boost and on and off spray. But what u said about having cons. tune and spraying when u want to sounds good to me.

I jumped into this thread cause I want to know how these guy's are running meth and nitrous because I to would also like to run these on my setup in the future. Now Trick said, a big shot like 100 -200 would be a kick in the pants but I have'nt seen where anyone has tried this or if it's doable. If so I'm sure it would be a wild ride.

I was just planning on a 50-75 shot. Would the maggie fuel pump need to be upgraded or just the fuel injecters?

All of this stuff is new to me so the more knowledge I gain the better:nod:.

Also how's your build going!:burn:

I hear ya. Like I said if a Radix alone gets me where I want, no spray for me. I can 100% appreciate that u wanna run it safe off & on boost ( or w/. other goodies), cause I wanna keep my motor together too. I can't afford a new motor. Surely not the way I'd have 1 built if I didn't do it.

Those that run both, a good tune is essential. Heck it's important to maximize even an N/A motor.
My bad, I left out in my previous reply a key point. Goin above the 75, if not over 100shot & u may have disastrous consequences. :bomb:
It may be doable, but I'm not gonna try it.
Maybe someone has, & of course I can't read or remember every post, but u can try it. The 2 guys that have Maggie's are both TVS powered, run 11's & I have a lotta respect for them. There are prolly others. EvilGMC is doin some interesting things as well. :nod:

I can speculate what I'd do as to inj. or fuel pump if u do this, but maybe someone else will chime in. I'd certainly look at inj. duty cycle. Don't wanna overtax em.

I'm learning all the time. I've never gotten into a Gen 3 til just recently. I'nm doin more than I used to & gettin more involved w/. my ride & my knowledge.
My build has not gone along as smooth as I wanted as it pertains to my timeline, but I did get cam, pushrods, & springs done. Timing chain & crank pinned for insurance. :D

We have similiar builds I see. Well, other than your Radix is on.
Dyno sheet will be up tomorrow in a thread. Track results if I'm not too tired will be up Wed night., if not, on Thur. :D

I'm curious as to how trever1t runs both meth and nitrous. Did'nt he get into the 11's when he had his radix?:burnout:

My hats off to you on doing your cam and work yourself. I plan on doing a cam swap in the near future but don't think I want to tackle it myself. But then on the other hand finding a good mechanic you can trust these days is getting hard to find. At least in my area anyway.

What size jet equals a 50 shot? and a 75?

My statements about fuel washing the bearings was talking about blower bearings. ; )

that is what several customers told me a blower company told them when they sprayed our wet shot in top.

I always said how crappy is that design if that's the case. Lol

working on getting me s blower soon.

interesting about the bearings. i wouldnt think it would be an issue because you will only be spraying at wot and that blower is going to be very hungry for air so i could imagine that fuel will be ripped through there so fast it wont have time to affect anything. besides the old 6-71 guys push fuel through all day. its part of what keeps things cool. i couldnt imagine their bearings are any different then these but i could be wrong. wondering if they are just covering thier asses. as far as meth goes spraying under the blower i thought about when there is vacuum in there will it draw on the meth? or is there some sort of check or solenoid to prevent flow

Devils Own sells a check valve for meth that has a 18psi cracking pressure. That's 36in of vac so it will never suck meth into the motor when not spraying, but the pump has no problem pushing past it. I have 2 meth nozzles post TB and they don't leak meth. ;)

Found this article interesting regarding adding nitrous to superchargers. Hopefully the link works.


http://ezinearticles.com/?Utilizing-...nce&id=2542586

You have to remember blower companies
don't like nitrous companies. And vise versa.
When an issue pops ip with warranty and the customer says he was using meth or nitrous to help the blowers heat issue.
That is an out not to warranty the issue.

Also this was several years back. I had to show a customer what 100 hp worth of fuel really looks like. Just to prove to him there was not enough liquid there to Jack to any bearings. Lol. It would scare most people to see how little fuel you use in a 12 second pass.

The old saying back when I was heavy into designing nitrous and working with every day. " pill it tell you kill it ". ;)

Ok read the article. Some good data and dome old school crap data.

Fuel does not can not fall out of the air stream. Also backfire have nothing to with fuel but lugging the engine and stalling the air flow. Why you ask?
Well some how some were some way that mixture ignited. Now were do you think that came from. It comes from the cylinder camber.
Air flow in an na system is over 200mph. But when people hit large shots at low toms the air flow in the intake system stalls/stops for a moment. That's weird time were the guy says it hit and it felt weird right before the booooom. :). This is why it is so important not to hit large shots at low rpms.
The nitrous you inject preblower replaces the air coming in. Post blower it is adding to the air already there.

Boosted cars have a much lesser chance of this backfire happening because of the rotors spinning making boost.

So start small and run a good window switch, with a tps or a wot switch. No push buttons.

Now when a backfire does happen na it sucks. You just lit an air fuel bomb off.

Way back in the day(6ish years ago) 2toneblown sprayed a 150 shot through his radix, most hated sprayed a 150 shot on his radix/LQ4 combo. Dewey has sprayed a 100 shot on his. There are a fwe running big shots just got to know where to look ;)

I plan on using a dry nitrous kit on my radix too. Im not sure how that will work since I also plan on using E85 and Ive only got 60# injectors to run and a cammed LQ4 with a 2.8 pulley will be using every bit the injectors can give...

From the little bit that Ive read on nitrous on top of blower tuning(mainly asking the people who are running it) is a lot like tuning NA as far as reducing timing.

The guys who run nitrous on top of their radix's seem to have a real nice kick in the pants from it :D

I just posted it because I thought it was interesting of how it was saying that the shot of nitrous raised boost and therefore added more power than the shot was set at, 50 shot turned into a 75 shot etc.etc.etc..

Anyway it seems that a dry shot before the blower would yield greater results?
Also I'm not really concerned with warranty just the added power. I think a big 100-150 shot would be nice. I did'nt know most hated and others sprayed that much through theirs. I'm interested in learning more about their results.:)

Oh and Trick I sent u a PM.

The larger the hit the bigger the differnce if feel and temp swing.

Exp. 50 shot on a 450hp truck you might not feel. The % of power increase us rather low. As well as very little tp drop.

Now 150 is a much
larger % of gain.

150 is a blast on na set ups. In a blower. I bet it gets your attention real fast.

200 shot on my old 671. Took a 8 lb setup and pegged a 15lb. Gauge the moment I hit it. Was a freaking rush.

Looking at getting a blower set up for the test truck. :)

I've been doing some searching and it seems that if you run lower boost you can run a bigger shot of nitrous maybe? So say u run a pulley that gives you 7-8 pds of boost this would keep the blower more into it's efficiency range.

Then you could run a big shot like 150 and that would also up the boost a few pds and still keep efficiency from the cooling effects of the larger amount of nitrous? Seems like it could be a win win situation to me, keeping the blower in it most efficient range and the added blast from nitrous. I don't know I could be totally wrong:(. Just something I'm considering unless I change my setup:burn:

So what's the consensus? Is Nitrous safe for the impellers?

If I had a blower here I would do it. :)