Thoughts on 370 build
06-29-2015, 06:42 PM
#21
Ok.
Lets look at it from another way.
Who make a good torque cam. Seems everyone I talk to recommends something bigger than the LS6. I might add I tell them what I want and they still recommend a bigger cam.
Tell me what specs you would run.
Im thinking this.
Something around 260 to 265 on the seat and 205 to 210 @ .050 and lift around .530/.530 on a say 115 lsa and installed about 3 degrees advance for 112 ICL.
Is that a torque cam then or does torque cams have larger lifts?
Lets look at it from another way.
Who make a good torque cam. Seems everyone I talk to recommends something bigger than the LS6. I might add I tell them what I want and they still recommend a bigger cam.
Tell me what specs you would run.
Im thinking this.
Something around 260 to 265 on the seat and 205 to 210 @ .050 and lift around .530/.530 on a say 115 lsa and installed about 3 degrees advance for 112 ICL.
Is that a torque cam then or does torque cams have larger lifts?
06-30-2015, 10:27 AM
#24
I wouldnt get so hung on on the 'bigger' aspect of an aftermarket cam. Its the valve events. The LS6 cam LOVES to rev despite its small duration because of its really late intake valve close.
If you have stock heads, and are looking for a torque cam in a 370 I would probably put in a 216/220 113+3 or so. It depends how much lope you are willing to live with at idle. That would be heard, but nothing crazy.
For more Lope I would go with a 220/224 112+3 and less lope I would 214/218 113+2
All of those cams will shift at about 6k. The more aggressive cams may give a little bit right off idle, but fatten up the mid range a little.
If you have stock heads, and are looking for a torque cam in a 370 I would probably put in a 216/220 113+3 or so. It depends how much lope you are willing to live with at idle. That would be heard, but nothing crazy.
For more Lope I would go with a 220/224 112+3 and less lope I would 214/218 113+2
All of those cams will shift at about 6k. The more aggressive cams may give a little bit right off idle, but fatten up the mid range a little.
06-30-2015, 03:32 PM
#26
Yea, but the LS6 cam keeps the intake valve open until 42-43* after bottom dead center. Even the biggest cam i mentioned above closes it at 40, and with a more aggressive lobe it will jack up DCR a little, improving bottom end power.
I can't say this any more clearly than I have. The LS6 cam does not make power like a 'small cam'. It's specs can be very misleading. They didnt use small duration numbers to help low end power, they used them to make idle manners and emissions great while making top end power needed in a z06 corvette. The LSA and ICL paint a much more clear picture than the duration alone. 117.5 - 2.5. Meaning 117.5LSA and 120ICL.
Example: my cam as a 222/226 114+4 does not rev as high as an LS6 cam. It makes a ton more mid range and is stronger on the bottom end even with a stock converter. I would venture a guess that it carries more power to about 6k rpm but then repidly drops off compared to the LS6. I like to describe the LS6 cam as one that makes mediocre power, but will pull to the moon!
I used one in my DD, but if i was building a motor there is no chance in hell I would have.
I can't say this any more clearly than I have. The LS6 cam does not make power like a 'small cam'. It's specs can be very misleading. They didnt use small duration numbers to help low end power, they used them to make idle manners and emissions great while making top end power needed in a z06 corvette. The LSA and ICL paint a much more clear picture than the duration alone. 117.5 - 2.5. Meaning 117.5LSA and 120ICL.
Example: my cam as a 222/226 114+4 does not rev as high as an LS6 cam. It makes a ton more mid range and is stronger on the bottom end even with a stock converter. I would venture a guess that it carries more power to about 6k rpm but then repidly drops off compared to the LS6. I like to describe the LS6 cam as one that makes mediocre power, but will pull to the moon!
I used one in my DD, but if i was building a motor there is no chance in hell I would have.
Last edited by Vortec350ss; 06-30-2015 at 03:39 PM.
06-30-2015, 06:01 PM
#27
Yea, but the LS6 cam keeps the intake valve open until 42-43* after bottom dead center. Even the biggest cam i mentioned above closes it at 40, and with a more aggressive lobe it will jack up DCR a little, improving bottom end power.
I can't say this any more clearly than I have. The LS6 cam does not make power like a 'small cam'. It's specs can be very misleading. They didnt use small duration numbers to help low end power, they used them to make idle manners and emissions great while making top end power needed in a z06 corvette. The LSA and ICL paint a much more clear picture than the duration alone. 117.5 - 2.5. Meaning 117.5LSA and 120ICL.
Example: my cam as a 222/226 114+4 does not rev as high as an LS6 cam. It makes a ton more mid range and is stronger on the bottom end even with a stock converter. I would venture a guess that it carries more power to about 6k rpm but then repidly drops off compared to the LS6. I like to describe the LS6 cam as one that makes mediocre power, but will pull to the moon!
I used one in my DD, but if i was building a motor there is no chance in hell I would have.
I can't say this any more clearly than I have. The LS6 cam does not make power like a 'small cam'. It's specs can be very misleading. They didnt use small duration numbers to help low end power, they used them to make idle manners and emissions great while making top end power needed in a z06 corvette. The LSA and ICL paint a much more clear picture than the duration alone. 117.5 - 2.5. Meaning 117.5LSA and 120ICL.
Example: my cam as a 222/226 114+4 does not rev as high as an LS6 cam. It makes a ton more mid range and is stronger on the bottom end even with a stock converter. I would venture a guess that it carries more power to about 6k rpm but then repidly drops off compared to the LS6. I like to describe the LS6 cam as one that makes mediocre power, but will pull to the moon!
I used one in my DD, but if i was building a motor there is no chance in hell I would have.
Where did you get that valve timing information on a GM cam?
Did you have one put on a cam doctor?
They dont give out that information.
07-03-2015, 01:54 PM
#28
Beating the bushes a little more here on some of these LS engines and what people dont want on them when they go to aftermarket cams and internals.
Is it true that if you go to a stroker crank you are going to have to basically go to a aftermarket assembly? Like from a 3.622" crank to 4" crank? Will the block have to clearanced like SBC and BBC are?
It appears that there are not alot of interchangeable parts on some of these LS engines such as camshafts. If you think from 1955 up to I guess 1986 all those camshafts from GM would fit, I think. Now with these, some do and some dont depending on sensors and all kinds of stuff. I have not looked at alot of the LS1 or LS2 engines. I have only looked at the truck line of LS engines. This would the be 4.8/5.3/6.0. It appears those camshafts will interchange as well as the LS6 from the corvette. The LS3 camshaft seem to be hybrid of somesort to the LS6 camshaft. Both will pull to around 6300 to 6500 in a 6.0 it appears. The LS3 camshaft appears to pull to 5900 and then takes a sharp dive, however this engine has 376 cubic inches and I think is not in any vehicle as its a crate engine from GM. Im not sure on that.
I think the LS6 camshaft is a great replacement in a LQ4 or LQ9 or a 370 build if you want to turn it to around 6300 to 6500. I think it would be really nice in a street 408 build too and probably max out around 5200 to 5500 and have that smooth idle without shaking the fenders.
Let me go over what Im trying to do. Build a streetable driver that is durable and can work but also provide a little fun when not being used as a truck. I have the NOS plate on there, but that never seems to be used as I have been working on the chevelle to get completed.
Again, just going to get a replacement crank and use the LS2 rods I have and a set of hyper Speed Pro pistons with Mahle rings to get a 370 engine. Just clean up the heads and dont do anyting to them. Run the stock truck intake as this a truck and keep the headers.
I have yet to find anyone in the LS world (although I have not looked that hard) that even wants to discuss quench and chambers like we do here and other places on the SBC an BBC. I have planned a build to have a tight quench. Of course, I dont know anything about LS stuff and it may not have to have that like the other builds do. I figure that cant hurt. Found two gaskets that seem to work. One is a cometic gasket with a 4.060 bore and .040 thickness for a quench of .040 and a Fel-Pro gasket with a 4.100 bore and .041 thickness for a quench of .041. Both seem to be good.
Cam wise, it looks like Im going to have to step away from a GM cam that nobody wants. Wished I could use one though.
What I have found is several with Luanti, Cam Motion, Chris Straub, Vinci, Howards, and few more yet to come in.
All seem to want to spec something in the 212 to 218 range and around .530 to .550 lift.
Im thinking I might want something a little smaller.
Again, this is not a strip build or even anything close.
Im think 208 to 212 range with around any of those lifts.
Again concentrating on a 5200 to 5500 shift point.
Most all of these give me a DCR from 8.2 to 8.5. In the SBC and BBC world I have never run anything over a 8.3 DCR but think I could of gotten may a 8.4 or so as the tune was very tight. Im thinking the LS world would be even better. Im not sure where that would put you in the 87 octane world though.
I know several of my builds of 8.2 to 8.3 was always around 195 to 200 psi on cranking compression. I did have a SBC run on 93 only with no mix at 215 psi.
Anyone care to comment?
Is it true that if you go to a stroker crank you are going to have to basically go to a aftermarket assembly? Like from a 3.622" crank to 4" crank? Will the block have to clearanced like SBC and BBC are?
It appears that there are not alot of interchangeable parts on some of these LS engines such as camshafts. If you think from 1955 up to I guess 1986 all those camshafts from GM would fit, I think. Now with these, some do and some dont depending on sensors and all kinds of stuff. I have not looked at alot of the LS1 or LS2 engines. I have only looked at the truck line of LS engines. This would the be 4.8/5.3/6.0. It appears those camshafts will interchange as well as the LS6 from the corvette. The LS3 camshaft seem to be hybrid of somesort to the LS6 camshaft. Both will pull to around 6300 to 6500 in a 6.0 it appears. The LS3 camshaft appears to pull to 5900 and then takes a sharp dive, however this engine has 376 cubic inches and I think is not in any vehicle as its a crate engine from GM. Im not sure on that.
I think the LS6 camshaft is a great replacement in a LQ4 or LQ9 or a 370 build if you want to turn it to around 6300 to 6500. I think it would be really nice in a street 408 build too and probably max out around 5200 to 5500 and have that smooth idle without shaking the fenders.
Let me go over what Im trying to do. Build a streetable driver that is durable and can work but also provide a little fun when not being used as a truck. I have the NOS plate on there, but that never seems to be used as I have been working on the chevelle to get completed.
Again, just going to get a replacement crank and use the LS2 rods I have and a set of hyper Speed Pro pistons with Mahle rings to get a 370 engine. Just clean up the heads and dont do anyting to them. Run the stock truck intake as this a truck and keep the headers.
I have yet to find anyone in the LS world (although I have not looked that hard) that even wants to discuss quench and chambers like we do here and other places on the SBC an BBC. I have planned a build to have a tight quench. Of course, I dont know anything about LS stuff and it may not have to have that like the other builds do. I figure that cant hurt. Found two gaskets that seem to work. One is a cometic gasket with a 4.060 bore and .040 thickness for a quench of .040 and a Fel-Pro gasket with a 4.100 bore and .041 thickness for a quench of .041. Both seem to be good.
Cam wise, it looks like Im going to have to step away from a GM cam that nobody wants. Wished I could use one though.
What I have found is several with Luanti, Cam Motion, Chris Straub, Vinci, Howards, and few more yet to come in.
All seem to want to spec something in the 212 to 218 range and around .530 to .550 lift.
Im thinking I might want something a little smaller.
Again, this is not a strip build or even anything close.
Im think 208 to 212 range with around any of those lifts.
Again concentrating on a 5200 to 5500 shift point.
Most all of these give me a DCR from 8.2 to 8.5. In the SBC and BBC world I have never run anything over a 8.3 DCR but think I could of gotten may a 8.4 or so as the tune was very tight. Im thinking the LS world would be even better. Im not sure where that would put you in the 87 octane world though.
I know several of my builds of 8.2 to 8.3 was always around 195 to 200 psi on cranking compression. I did have a SBC run on 93 only with no mix at 215 psi.
Anyone care to comment?
