Coolant Flush & Fill Question, T-Stat Removal?
08-25-2014, 09:29 AM
#1
Coolant Flush & Fill Question, T-Stat Removal?
Its been since the 70's since I have filled a cold drained block with coolant and have questions.
I remember a gentleman who toasted a fresh built 1969 Z28 302 because he just filled the radiator and waited for it to go down. The motor was heavily breathed upon with 13:1 pop-ups and the like and we guessed there was air keeping the t-stat from feeling the coolant and the block & intake manifold castings had to heat up the t-stat and things got ugly.
He learned the hard way to fill the block at the t-Stat neck with the T-Stat removed first.
So here I am on a 2005 L33 ECSB with 14 years and 70k miles on the OE coolant and I am in the process of gathering all the new hoses for a hose and coolant change.
I have Googled and see no warnings about the above. I know the plumbing is a new animal.
So I take it if I dump the radiator at the bottom hose, re-connect and fill the reservoir, pull the top hose at the radiator and fill the block from that point?
Or can I burp the block at the heater hose inlet & outlets at the water pump?
As you guys can see, I am worried about having to heat the T-Stat with block and water pump casting heat because of trapped air.
Talk To Me Please........
Thanks
I remember a gentleman who toasted a fresh built 1969 Z28 302 because he just filled the radiator and waited for it to go down. The motor was heavily breathed upon with 13:1 pop-ups and the like and we guessed there was air keeping the t-stat from feeling the coolant and the block & intake manifold castings had to heat up the t-stat and things got ugly.
He learned the hard way to fill the block at the t-Stat neck with the T-Stat removed first.
So here I am on a 2005 L33 ECSB with 14 years and 70k miles on the OE coolant and I am in the process of gathering all the new hoses for a hose and coolant change.
I have Googled and see no warnings about the above. I know the plumbing is a new animal.
So I take it if I dump the radiator at the bottom hose, re-connect and fill the reservoir, pull the top hose at the radiator and fill the block from that point?
Or can I burp the block at the heater hose inlet & outlets at the water pump?
As you guys can see, I am worried about having to heat the T-Stat with block and water pump casting heat because of trapped air.
Talk To Me Please........
Thanks
08-25-2014, 09:08 PM
#2
If your heater is still hooked up and you fill through the surge tank you shouldn't have that problem with the LS motors.
This is a good article with diagrams showing the water path.
Pirate4x4.Com - The largest off roading and 4x4 website in the world.
Unlike other modern cars this setup is almost impossible IMO to vapor lock.
This is a good article with diagrams showing the water path.
Pirate4x4.Com - The largest off roading and 4x4 website in the world.
Unlike other modern cars this setup is almost impossible IMO to vapor lock.
08-25-2014, 10:49 PM
#3
If your heater is still hooked up and you fill through the surge tank you shouldn't have that problem with the LS motors.
This is a good article with diagrams showing the water path.
Pirate4x4.Com - The largest off roading and 4x4 website in the world.
Unlike other modern cars this setup is almost impossible IMO to vapor lock.
This is a good article with diagrams showing the water path.
Pirate4x4.Com - The largest off roading and 4x4 website in the world.
Unlike other modern cars this setup is almost impossible IMO to vapor lock.
Tell me if I'm seeing this right please. My 05 is almost 10 years old and on the OE fluid @ 70k miles. Heh! I'm 5 years past the recommended change. The coolant still looks OK.
I am going to change all the hoses and want to do a good flush.
It looks like if I drop the lower radiator hose it just drains the radiator and the block coolant is still trapped behind the t-stat, correct?
So if I drop the surge tank and heater hoses the block drains?
I reconnect all the hoses but for the top radiator hose, leaving it off at the radiator neck.
With the surge tank cap off I pour into the tank or hose as much as I can and reconnect and run it just a little to move fluid and repeat?
Or - Just keep dropping the lower rad hose and filling with water, bringing it to t-stat opening temps, and repeating until it runs clear, and then fill with 2 gallons of concentrate and add distilled water until the system is full?
Thanks
08-26-2014, 02:46 PM
#4
pull the heater hose to drain the block. lower radiator hose to drain radiator. To fill install all hoses and fill from surge tank. Start motor and top off thru surge tank. You will see the air bubbling out into the surge tank as you fill. Also notice at least on my '99 there is a air trap line from radiator to surge tank.
08-26-2014, 03:08 PM
#5
There is actually a little hole in the stock tstat to let a small amount of fluid through (or air). Drain however you want, and fill through surge tank. Recheck fluid after a few minutes of running, and a few hours later. Complete drain is like 3 gallons.
08-26-2014, 10:54 PM
#6
Thank You Both,
My T-Stat housing don't have the hole.
But I did as you said and got her running clear in one shot. Very nice. I ran water through it for a while and flushed the RAD and she sealed her up and ran it to full temps and she is full clear.
My hoses will be here before the weekend and she will receive the well deserved treatment. I have a few gallons of distilled water, two gallons of Dex concentrate, and one gallon of Dex 50/50.
I'll drain, pour in the two gals of Dex 100%, pour in two gals of distilled water, and top off if needed with the 50/50 Dex. The book says she holds 16 Qts.
All my rubber will be Gates. I was looking at the Gates heat shrink hose clamps but will stay with the OE.
My T-Stat housing don't have the hole.
But I did as you said and got her running clear in one shot. Very nice. I ran water through it for a while and flushed the RAD and she sealed her up and ran it to full temps and she is full clear.
My hoses will be here before the weekend and she will receive the well deserved treatment. I have a few gallons of distilled water, two gallons of Dex concentrate, and one gallon of Dex 50/50.
I'll drain, pour in the two gals of Dex 100%, pour in two gals of distilled water, and top off if needed with the 50/50 Dex. The book says she holds 16 Qts.
All my rubber will be Gates. I was looking at the Gates heat shrink hose clamps but will stay with the OE.
08-30-2014, 03:53 PM
#7
Hoses & Coolant Changed, What a Chore! (With Radix)
First, @ Atomic, I misunderstood your help, I was thinking about the housing not the -Stat. This is because I read some housings have a pipe plug. I get what you were saying now. Thanks.
Well I started on the job thinking it was going to be a piece of cake.
The plan was to re-use the OE radiator clamps, and the bottom reservoir clamp.
Then use the Gates PowerGrip SB heat shrink on the heater core nipples, block heater hose nipple.They did not have the other block heater hose/reservoir nipple clamp in stock. I'll do that one when I get really bored one day.
Well I began at what I predicted to be the most difficult.
With the Radix supercharger in close proximity to the heater core couplings its very tight there and getting the special little split collar removal tool (Doorman 800-450) behind them was a real pain but doable. I replaced the couplings with (Doorman 800-409) units.
Getting the new couplers to pop on was almost as hard, I cheated with a micro amount of silicone lube on the nipple. To add to the frustration I could not hear them click on or feel the bump, but they are on fine. They just move onto the nipples slowly and stop.
Heat shrinking the hose to the couplers was nice and went on before going under the hood. I have a good heat gun.
Thinking the hard part was done it was time to tackle the radiator hoses.
MERCY!
There is a barb on the water pump nipple creating a hump not allowing the clamp over it before pulling the hose off. GM's design for ease of assembly on the assembly line has a hook to hold the clamp open that is a one time deal without a special tool.
You have to compress the clamp, push it back against the water pump and pull the hose out from under it and off of the nipple. The problem is the clamp hits the water pump not sliding all the way off the hose giving you a good time to think up new four letter words and phrases.
The reverse is putting the clamp on first, slide the hose over the barb, and put the clamp on the hose. Its not fun either.
Sounds simple eh? NOT. This procedure was the same for the radiator connections also.
Why? These 2005 factory hose clamps are impressively made thick and have a pretty darned stout spring rate.
When you compress the spring there is a little hook that stops you from getting that last little bit you need to make it easy. This hook as I said before, holds the clamp open for an assembly line worker or robot.
Believe me, I am a machinist and industrial maintenance tech and I tried to take advantage of the hook but it didn't happen.
There are tools out there for compressing the clamps but not ones that will put the hook into play.
I carefully used vise grips to hold the clamps open against the hooks. I had to use a small set of pliers to turn the vice grip jaw adjuster to get it just right.
But I got them all on and no leaks. 10 years later and 70+k miles the OE coolant looks OK, no lumps, thickening or gelling. The bottom radiator hose had a slight bulge in the center.
The book says 16 Quarts (4 gallons). I did a flush, refilling with water twice earlier in the week and ran up to temps. What I dropped today was clear.
I poured in two gallons of Prestone Dex-Cool and less than a gallon of distilled water. There must have been 1.25 gallons of water that would not pour out via the heater hose nipples. I was not game to pull the brass block plug.
The Clamp Hook in a smaller version shown here on one of the water pump clamps I replaced with the Gates PowerGrip SB clamps
The heater Core Connections
The Water Pump Connections - The Y-Hose is a Gates as purchased with Gates factory installed PowerGrip SB clamps on the T.
Well I started on the job thinking it was going to be a piece of cake.
The plan was to re-use the OE radiator clamps, and the bottom reservoir clamp.
Then use the Gates PowerGrip SB heat shrink on the heater core nipples, block heater hose nipple.They did not have the other block heater hose/reservoir nipple clamp in stock. I'll do that one when I get really bored one day.
Well I began at what I predicted to be the most difficult.
With the Radix supercharger in close proximity to the heater core couplings its very tight there and getting the special little split collar removal tool (Doorman 800-450) behind them was a real pain but doable. I replaced the couplings with (Doorman 800-409) units.
Getting the new couplers to pop on was almost as hard, I cheated with a micro amount of silicone lube on the nipple. To add to the frustration I could not hear them click on or feel the bump, but they are on fine. They just move onto the nipples slowly and stop.
Heat shrinking the hose to the couplers was nice and went on before going under the hood. I have a good heat gun.
Thinking the hard part was done it was time to tackle the radiator hoses.
MERCY!
There is a barb on the water pump nipple creating a hump not allowing the clamp over it before pulling the hose off. GM's design for ease of assembly on the assembly line has a hook to hold the clamp open that is a one time deal without a special tool.
You have to compress the clamp, push it back against the water pump and pull the hose out from under it and off of the nipple. The problem is the clamp hits the water pump not sliding all the way off the hose giving you a good time to think up new four letter words and phrases.
The reverse is putting the clamp on first, slide the hose over the barb, and put the clamp on the hose. Its not fun either.
Sounds simple eh? NOT. This procedure was the same for the radiator connections also.
Why? These 2005 factory hose clamps are impressively made thick and have a pretty darned stout spring rate.
When you compress the spring there is a little hook that stops you from getting that last little bit you need to make it easy. This hook as I said before, holds the clamp open for an assembly line worker or robot.
Believe me, I am a machinist and industrial maintenance tech and I tried to take advantage of the hook but it didn't happen.
There are tools out there for compressing the clamps but not ones that will put the hook into play.
I carefully used vise grips to hold the clamps open against the hooks. I had to use a small set of pliers to turn the vice grip jaw adjuster to get it just right.
But I got them all on and no leaks. 10 years later and 70+k miles the OE coolant looks OK, no lumps, thickening or gelling. The bottom radiator hose had a slight bulge in the center.
The book says 16 Quarts (4 gallons). I did a flush, refilling with water twice earlier in the week and ran up to temps. What I dropped today was clear.
I poured in two gallons of Prestone Dex-Cool and less than a gallon of distilled water. There must have been 1.25 gallons of water that would not pour out via the heater hose nipples. I was not game to pull the brass block plug.
The Clamp Hook in a smaller version shown here on one of the water pump clamps I replaced with the Gates PowerGrip SB clamps
The heater Core Connections
The Water Pump Connections - The Y-Hose is a Gates as purchased with Gates factory installed PowerGrip SB clamps on the T.
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08-30-2014, 10:30 PM
#10
I had a Wife's car 1996 S10 Blazer that the old Dex-Cool formula muddied up before its time and cracked the radiator and T-Stat housing on a nice hot summer day. GM said too bad.
My truck is one of my babies. I love to breath on her to pass the time. My signature link kinda shows my obsession.