I'd like to see some conversation here, and this seems to be a good topic. With all the new stuff Dodge added last yr and GM will for next, anyone see Ford responding with more powerful trucks that get better fuel mileage with or without cylinder fire management?

Not sure myself, but I do think they'll be hurtin' if they don't at least add something to the 4.6L(like another set of heads w/ added valves) and 5.4L engines. The 4.6 is way behind where it should be and the 5.4L is 8 valves away from 350+hp without a supercharger(consider the 2000 Cobra R). At very least, they need a new Lightning or S/C'd H-D CC model.

I know they plan a new diesel SD for the '08 model. I just hope they aren't putting that engine so far ahead of everything else, they forget the bread-n-butter F-150.

im not really sure on the lightning. but from what i am seeing and hearing they arent doing anything.

I'd like to see'em do something with a larger bore diameter.
Even the "5.0 Cammer" is only 3.7" and, to me, that's just too small. And 3.66 is ridiculous.
Valve clearance isn't the only thing that matters! Gasoline combustion has a "perfect atmosphere" and 3.66" is not part of that equation.
I'm no a guru on this stuff. But, even I know they dropped the ball, performance wise, on this one.
I've seen and read and heard about "big power" from mod engines and that's just great. But, I can't help wondering how much better it would be with even a 4" bore.
However, we'll never know because the bore spacing of the mod engine is only 3.937!
Also, I'm not impressed with the 5.4's (1.598) rod ratio. The 4.6's (1.67) is better.
However, given ALL the technical information at the finger-tips of these engineers BEFORE the mod engines were designed, I can't understand what they were thinkin'!
Don't get me wrong; I know their main interest was emissions, but they could have done much better IMO!

Emissions rules suck for everyone in America, and the mod motors are like emission kings. That said, they really need to make some changes and I think the best thing they could do now is offer a 4 valve engine and drop the 2V entirely, going with a 3V as the base version. It already happened with the 5.4L and the Mustang version of the 4.6L so it should continue where these are used. That should also save money.

I also think they really need to implement better fuel management, which has been available for over a decade already and for no good reason, left unused with these mods.

The only thing they should do now is USE the technology they have. A good bump in power cannot hurt sales, no matter what the accountants have to say. I really doubt they'l be onboard with this until about '09, but they'll have no choice, given the competition.

they (Ford) are really dragging ass, Chevrolet has the SS, TBSS and SSR. Dodge boys have the "HEMI", Rumblebee, SRT-10, Daytonas, umm still have R/T Daks?? i dunno, anyways, Blue Oval boys are down to some slim pickings. I dont think the have the ability to tune like us (that i am aware of..) i really dont know SH#! about fords. i havent seen any cams or anything besides S/C or some sort of F.I. do mustang parts swap out?cams, heads, intake?

i guess i cant offer up any true "ideas" upon which they could improve. Seems i dont have enough knowledge on them in the first place :bang: :jest:

The Fords can be tuned quite a bit, with stock ECMs. But, tuning will only go so far.
Like I said before, IMO, the root of the problem is the damn engine.
I'll give credit to those who have made big power with them. But, I have no choice. I mean hey, I can't polish a turd and they can!
And yes, parts do swap ... The mod engines all have the same basic architecture. But, I wouldn't bother.
After-market cams are offered for the mod engines. If one wanted "PI" heads for an older version. One would have to swap H/C/I and headers to match.'The only after-market intake I've seen fits the "PI" heads only.
Anyway .... Well, it's still not what I would choose to make big hp.
I just can't uderstand why they didn't use ONE deck height (prefferably 9.5-9.6) AND a 4.125" bore (with something like a 4.5" bore spacing) on all of them. If they'd have done that, they'da had somethin'. :judge:
They're pretty good truck engines and the seem to last a long time.
I have a '97 Grand Marquis with over 225,000 miles on it and the valve covers have never been off. Oh, and they're crazy smooth.
Hell, these engines are everything I wouldn't want in my hot-rod! The ol' lady loves it, though. And I have a Dart block (4.125" bore) 347 option! :thumb:

Ford needs to get back in the game gm has the 367hp 6.0 dodge the 345hp 5.7 and ford is shy of even the 5.3 wich has 16 valves instead of 24. I heard a rumor of a 350hp 6.2 but the would get kicked in the pants by the 400hp gm 6.2.

I'd actually like to see a 32V engine in the 1/2 ton. Even if it's the diesel! Ford could simply use the 2000 Cobra R engine in the F-series for a 385hp start. They probably should too, but it seems their best bet over time will be more cubes. Maybe a 7.0L would help. They could also drop the 462 or whatever hp V10 into the 150 if they really wanted, and it would make sense to a degree, but I still wouldn't buy one.

I guess they'll need to cast a new block with more end to end distance and maybe less top to bottom, but nothing that would ruin the deck height. Seems the mod engine is excellent really, but they're not making enough power sans supercharger as compared to the larger displacement, more conventional engines.

Dodge has multiple models, as mentioned above, but the Hemi is available in all but the SRT10, and that means the others are all about distinctive looks. I think the Hemi is also avail. in the Dak, but I don't recall an R/T for a few yrs now, since the 360 left. Even that would be a change for Ford and that's what I'm wondering.... when will they change something again?

I'm wondering.... when will they change something again? I hope, for Ford's sake, it doesn't take as long as this (mod) took! My guess is, we won't see a mod replacement until around 2012. Of course, that's just a guess.
I haven't seen the 3 valve 5.4, but it seems like folks are happy with it.
From the dyno numbers I've seen from the Hemis, I don't think Ford should us that as a mile stone.
It's been a while, but I seem to recall very low rwhp #s from the hemis with autos (like 26x). Someone dynoed a 3 valve that made more (I wanna say 28x rwhp). But, I can't remember who it was, so I can't prove it.
Still, the platform, while proven to be a good one, is not conducive of "big power", easilly.

not to wander off the Ford trail too far... Hemi HP aint bad. they lose ALOT thru D/T, especially the transmission. if i am not mistaken, which i most likely am... the Smaller dodge trucks 1/2ton and whatnot use the 46RE. i THINK. anyways, the loss they see from the trans is like 25% so i have been told. 60E/65E is like what... 17.5%? so -25% from 345, and you get something similiar to 86-87 HP gone. 260 hp aint shit in one of those fat-ass trucks. no offense.

I have seen a dyno from a ford in a magazine 271rwhp and 310rwtq, thats not bad but considering the 5.3 puts like 250 the 5.3ho 260 and the new ones should be around 270, thats the 5.3 the 6.0s will be like 300-310rwhp the dodges aint bad but fords are just plain heavy and also they are pigs(no offense just my opnion)

Nobody is happy with the 5.4 3v that cares about performance. Factory tuning is so reserved it's laughable. Tuning unleashes these new mod 5.4's big time and there are competition cams available that put out great #'s. There is a member @ f150online that has swapped the 5.4 into his stang, very knowledgeable on the comp cams if you're interested.

I own the new body style F150 (2004 Lariat 4x4), stock I put down around 260rwhp if that. I have AF1 intake, flowmaster single chamber exhaust, removed rear cats, underdrive pullies, dual electric fans and am custom tuned by Troyer via the XCal2. I put down around 270 when I had my cats on, the flowmaster really kills my numbers. I would assume I'm around 275-280rwhp but for the money I'm disappointed in the response from the 5.4. I had a magnaflow and the performance was great, but I'm sitting on 37" Mud Grapplers and the maggie just didn't fit the truck.

Don't get me wrong, I'm quick for the mods as I raced a bagged Hemi yesterday on 20's. I stayed with him from a roll on my stock 3.73's and he slowly pulled away once we hit around 65. I was very impressed with my performance, even with the 37's I'm at around stock performance above 20mph @ WOT. Regardless, stock I would have had trouble keeping up with most (5.6, 5.3 and 5.7...). I have been able to keep up with the 5.3 for a while, been racing a exhaust only 05 reg cab chevy lowered on 22's 5.3L since stock and have done fairly well against him. I believe he has 3.55's and use that to reason why he'd take off later in the race. Here (http://videos.streetfire.net/video/7a558cf9-7d0f-4df9-86f7-28ec23a35fda.htm) is a video. Even after my mods combined I was never able to beat him, I really need to throw the maggie back on as I feel I lost a good bit of performance without it.

The harley F150's are going to be supercharged in 08-09 from what I've heard, they added the Supercrew version and different color options in 07 as a major change and I believe that was next.

The 97-03 body styles had horrible crash ratings and they upped them with the side effects of weight. Fully boxed frame, etc. They are now the highest rated crash ratings acheivable, I'd have taken a lighter weight truck over that but I'm certainly one of the very few who feels that way. I say that because I have liability and I hate getting stuck, it's terribly difficult to pull me out.

Regardless, I am disappointed in the 3v and seems like I have to go the extra mile to keep up with the stock competition. Hell, my exhaust sounded like crap until I removed those cats, now I'm @ about what the comp is. Good going Ford, it's funny we can't even participate in a performance forum unless we go forced induction. W/upgraded pullies there are a couple members with Whipple's pushing 450rwhp. Another vortech'd reg cab was pushing 500rwhp but was not stable, so he reserved the tuning to 450 or so. I believe he had a vortech. The 5.4's are just mated to a huge brick, it's hard to get them moving but they make great mid-top end.

Dodge has multiple models, as mentioned above, but the Hemi is available in all but the SRT10, and that means the others are all about distinctive looks. I think the Hemi is also avail. in the Dak, but I don't recall an R/T for a few yrs now, since the 360 left. Even that would be a change for Ford and that's what I'm wondering.... when will they change something again?
I've seen two new body style Dakotas' w/ the R/T letters on the back half of the bed.I just don't know if that means anything special.I read in a magazine about Dodge putting a KB in a Rumble Bee Ram.That could be interesting since I think they said 1/4 times were low 13s.

hey josiah what up.
i am also hoping that ford gets off the pot someday.

I've been optomistic that Ford will not take a back seat for long. The 6.2L is back in production with a big increase in hp/tq. There may be an n/a 5.4 offered in the Stang with a significant increase in power. It could be used in the trucks. I believe there is a 4.6L with hp close to the Stang used in a Ford SUV, I can't recall where..possibly in a Lincoln/Mercury.

The future does look bright, but we'll have to wait and see. I'm a believer that there will be a new Lightning utilizing a S/C 6.?L.

There is too much at stake for Ford not to make changes. Lots of what ifs, but I'm staying positive.

who cares? :jest: just kidding.. i DO know that there is a new expedition ..with an extended version also available. it il also have an available dieel engine. the new super duty are coming too...

I heard(at a dealership) Ford is building a 6.4L diesel... With twin turbos. That'll wake up the masses! Supposedly, it has a 2008 model release schedule. I have also heard it will be a 6.2L, but 6.4L does make more sense for a truck.

1. Dodge has brought back the Dakota R/T for '07. This should be interesting.

2. Don't get so excited about the HEMI. I had one, it was a dog. The numbers people are posting running mid 8's in the 1/8th on a stock HEMI are pure BS. I traded my HEMI for my current truck. I've been challenged by several HEMI's and most the time I don't even waste the gas. When I do, it's just embarassing. That HEMI badge makes dudes feel invincible. It's a good engine, great for towing, and can be modded well. But guys will always lie about their numbers.

3. It would be nice if Ford would bring back the lightning but it's not going to help them any. Ford isn't hurting because they don't have a performance truck. The F series out sells everyone else. The performance truck crowd is too small for a manufacture to really give a shit.

4. I wish they had a nice fast truck, though. I definitely would have picked one up over the SRT10.

I've driven 2 Dakotas, one with a V6 and the other, a 318. I wasn't unhappy with the 3.9L when it was traded for the 5.2L longbed a few yrs later. But in the 107,xxx miles put on the latter, and having worked for Dodge, I find nothing interesting about the Dakota anymore, even in R/T form. The way the fenders meet the doors... :barf: and that sums up the whole thing for me. The second Dakota though... Hated it by the time the F-250 took its place in 1999. 6 transmissions, 6 sets of front pads, 6 sets of front rotors, a $400+ ECM and other things not so bad on their own... It was all I could stand. That F-250 now has nearly 160,000 miles on it(not mine) and I know it's never had an engine or transmission problem in all those miles. Okay, so I don't like Dakotas... :devil:

As for the Hemi, it's got power and pulls well, but I saw far too many replaced in the dealership over the simplest of engine tasks, an oil change. We had nearly four per month come in, so sludged up, you'd swear it was a 10yr old SBC which hadn't had an oil change in a yr. When a truck that still looks brand new comes in with a blown engine... That's not my idea of a good engine. Sure, people should take maintenance more seriously and have it done on schedule. That said, any engine should live for 15K without an oil change and without blowing up.

Ford has seen a nearly 13% drop in sales since the L2 was removed from their market. Meanwhile, Dodge and GM have both offered more powerful models and, particularly Dodge, seen sales remain about constant. All the while, the exceedingly overpriced Tundra has stolen the show. Ford still has the biggest market share, but Toyota will surpass them if changes aren't made, and that only means ones that work. A new "L3" would be great and I think we'll see one by '08. I might prefer a Ranger GT with the 5.4 used in L2's under it's hood. Instant 12's with a good driver(and maybe cheater slicks), and better fuel economy than the Lightning ever got. :) It's amazing the Tundra is selling well, but all Toyotas are. If looking for a half tonner, not of the "Big Three," I'd buy a Titan instead. It's a better truck, period. It cost thousands less too boot, and has more power and torque(standard) than the Tundra as far as I know. Not to mention the standard features no other manufacturer comes close to.

Im not goin to lie, i could care less what they come out with or what they do.
Just as long as they have a Tahoe out several years from now.
I got my truck, ill fix it till they stop making gasoline.
I will never buy a new vehicle.
I just dont like the look of any new vechicles. I mean think back when they actually had to engineer a car. They didnt have anything to go by. They designed it and built it. Only thing i see nowadays is "Updating" them.

Im probably wrong though.. but thats what it looks like to me. :judge: :judge: :judge: