Finally got back to the dyno after the 6L swap. Pullied down to 2.75". The numbers are ok but overall I'm not impressed with my numbers. :(
Check out my graph from the 5.3@ 9PSI vs. the 6.0@ 8PSI. I gained a whopping 30rwhp and 14rwtq by swapping to a 6L and a 210/218 .551 112lsa cam and dual springs. And if the numbers weren't depressing enough check out the TQ curve or lack there of.
On the 5.3 it shot up and leveled off with the 6L its a gradual climb. The 5.3 had the stock cam in it. I am wondering if this cam choice (suggested by Vinci) was the right choice.
Maybe I'm off here so you guys chime in. I don't think the gains were worth the effort. I also offer up that other than a Maganflow muffler the exhaust is stock. Maybe I'm chocking it off. The Pacesetter are still in my garage, no time to install just yet.
These runs were done on different dynos but both are DynoJets so I don't think they would be that much different.
Give me your thoughts.

5.3L @ 9psi
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Baumgardner2051/Dyno_5.jpg
6.0L @ 8psi 17.5* timing and AFR at 11.6 to 11.8
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Baumgardner2051/Dyno_10_March_06.jpg
On the Dyno
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Baumgardner2051/Dyno002.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Baumgardner2051/Dyno009.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Baumgardner2051/Dyno004.jpg
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Baumgardner2051/Dyno001.jpg
Leaving the Dyno:devil:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Baumgardner2051/Dyno008.jpg

About time! :judge:

I think you may be in dire need of the pacesetters and off road Y. I'm really surprised at the lack of gain as well. I would have expected the tq to have been more. And only 8psi with a 2.75??? Think you may have had some belt slip. What were the AIT's like? That may have been what was killing you.

I would expect quite a bit more as well :confused: . I wouldnt think that you would be lower than Blownchevy's numbers being as you have more displacement and basically same exhaust system. Do you have the 90MM TB mod? If not, I think youd stand to gain a ton of power when you do that and the pacesetters and Y pipe.
:offtopic: BTW I have an 04 6.0 with 15K (supposedly) miles that will be here this weekend :ripped: . Its probably going to be couple weeks before we get the cam and STS on there though. Im anxious to see what it does vs. the 5.3 and vortech.

Sorry I wasn't able to meet you at the Dyno :bang: Those numbers are more than respectable, but your point about a lot of effort and little return rings true. Get those Pacesetters on there and get back on the dyno...I would imagine there is some serious restriction in the stock piping. Did John do any tuning for you or was it just a dyno session?

John said he thinks I could see up to 35-40hp after the long tubes get on. That would be nice. I have the stock TB. This was a full up dyno tune. He changed all kinds of tables and settings. My first AFR wouldn't ever register because I was at something like 8.5:1 or whatever. He had to decrease 14% fuel just to get it to 10.0:1 so he could see it on the charts. So I was WAAAAY rich. Maybe that explains my horrible MPG:eyes: . I think the cam is killing my boost. It has 52* of overlap. But I'm not that smart on cams. Maybe freeing up the exhaust will help out. I am running 17.5* of timing. Before the tune I was running at 20* with no KR at all. John thought that was way to high and wanted to keep me at 17 to 18 so if I get into some cold weather I wont have an issue. One thing I have found since I left is, if I'm at idle and turn on the A/C it won't blow cold and the compressor kicks on and off and the truck almost dies everytime and actually did die a couple times. If I rev it up to 900rpm or so it gets real cold and idles great. I guess I need to have him look at that. The part that frustrated me was the low numbers and then when I drive it home, it really doesnt feel any stronger than when I drove it there. 2 more pounds of boost and leaned way out, increased 30hp and some tq and spent $400 but the SOTP meter didn't move.:( Guess I will get the Pacesetters on and see what she does. Anybody else want to blame the cam? Other opinions?

Checked the pulley for belt dust, it was clean as a whistle. My AIT's, I don't know for sure but it was about 85* @ 53% humidity in the shop according to the chart. I checked my intercooler fluid after each run and it was luke warm at best so I don't think the air was that hot. And yes, only 8#'s with that pulley. I figure the LT's will probably cost me another pound as well. I feel a cam swap in my future. Well, in a few months after I get back from fighting evil doers:bigun2:

Should the HP and TQ curves intersect at 5250 rpms? They do on the first graph but cross way short on the second. Maybe the dyno graph isn't scaled properly?

52* of overlap is huge IMO.. thats strange that they would recommend that cam for you. The comp cam I have, if I recall correctly, has no overlap or -2 or something like that. There are definately some things for you to work out, as I would expect at least 500rwhp out of that setup. But you will need the bigger TB to get there. Youre really not far off though. I think you could get there with the headers, Y and TB. Do you have a tuning program? I would hookup a wideband and HPTuners and get on there and put some timing in it.
Did you check the seals when you installed the Radix on the 6.0?? Maybe its not on there all the way and you are loosing some boost as NakedAV did.

I doubt the cam selection is hurting you very much.Check the cone filter to make sure it is not collapsing on you at full throttle.On my first set of dyno runs with my old 5.3, I had a K&N that was collapsing and dynoed 389hp,removing the filter resulted in 414hp.Check for little things.

Can you blow those charts up or email them to me so I can get a good look at the conditions and a better look at the curves. Also, don't you have a torque converter in the vehicle now? What were your 02 numbers? I have a client that went to two different dynojets in Illinois and one wideband read 12.6 and the other read 10.8. However, the tech 2, autotap and hp tuners all showed the 02s at 940s. I need some more info. Is the other dyno in a space as compact as this one as well? How does the exhaust escape the building? Joe.

I was looking at the engine during some of the pulls. The filter didn't collapse. It is a little dirty though.
I don't have software yet. I do have a wideband but am going to install that with the headers.
I replaced the seals on the radix during the swap.
I do have a TC now. A 2600 Fuddle. Also, during these pulls he rolled into the throttle and on the last dyno I did he nailed it from just off idle so this might explain the strange graphs, or not?
The other dyno was exactly like the recent dyno. The last one actually backed up to a wall and the recent one backed up to an open garage door.
Temps in the garage were low 80's with 50% humidity.
My reading as of today are:
B1S1 60-790 bouncing all over
B1S2 780-815
B2S2 70-815 bouncing all over
B2S2 730-835
LTFT B1 -4.69
LTFT B2 0.00

These #'s lead me to believe I have a leak on the current headers, which side is bank one? If its the drivers side, we had to tap an exhaust manifold bolt during the swap because of a broken bolt.

Joe: I will be in Orlando in about 24 hours. Maybe I can stop by your shop on Monday and let you see all the charts and you can scan it if you want:)

One of the runs:

http://media.putfile.com/Dyno-007

This is as big as I could get them to post.http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Baumgardner2051/Dyno_new.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y260/Baumgardner2051/Dyno_old.jpg

Am I reading them wrong or is your torque curve really messed up?? You were making 400lb ft at just before 2K rpms before and now it doesnt get there until almost 4K :confused: and after that it falls off very quickly!! That sure LOOKS like something isnt right to me.
Previously at 5500 you were still making 400lb ft, now at 5500 you are only making 350rwtq. Somethings up

Exactly. I don't know what it could be. Bigger engine, bigger cam, more boost=less low end Tq????:confused: Maybe I should put the 5.3 back in. I'm still stuck on the cam. I'm not gonna make any major changes until I get the exhaust work done and re-dyno. Feel free to keep discussing this and throwing out ideas but....I'm off to Orlando for a week so I won't be able to log-no until next Sunday. Thanks for the help guys:judge:

The torque is scaled different than the Hp. It autoscales this way. Be sure you guys are looking at the torque scale on the right side.

It was hovering around 80 degrees all day in the shop. On a blower car/truck, the correction factor only corrects so much. I've done blower setups on Cold days and then on Hot days and the corrected number is always higher on a cold day. This isn't as much of an issue on a NA application, but on a boosted app it plays a big role.

The converter cost you some power, but you are still ahead. The headers are for sure needed. It will only intake so much air if it can't get it out of the engine. It is a pump, in order to get more in, it has to have a way to get it out.

That makes a big difference LOL! Nobody I showed them to has noticed the other scale. Maybe the scale is messing with my head. I KNOW the 6L is making more Tq than the 5.3 did. But the numbers aren't there. But there is a big SOTP difference between the 5.3L and 6L on low end Tq. That's why I was so surprised that adding more boost and leaning it out didn't feel stronger.
Gotta go drive to Orlando and begin drinking. See ya!:chug:

If you do read this, give me a call or come by. I have some questions. I was busy and didn't get back to this until now. Sorry, Joe.

a 112 lsa seems a little tight for FI. Hope you get it figured out

Guys I found a good article on cams in LS2 engines. This is worth reading and maybe it can be applied to the 6.0 iron blocks.

I forgot to ad the link. Here it is
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/113_0504_ls2/index.html

I think its the cam. Why such a small cam on a SC'd 6.0 setup. Try running FM7 224/230 114LSA .587 .593 cam. You should pick up alot of TQ down low and make even more HP and TQ under the curve as well as peak number. Im running a Centri blower with that cam and 8psi it saw 400rwtq at 3K RPM and 500rwtq at 4200RPM and it holds the TQ until redline. I bet with your blower you would see even more TQ down low with the FM7. Good luck.

[QUOTE=1SlowHoe]Finally got back to the dyno after the 6L swap. Pullied down to 2.75". The numbers are ok but overall I'm not impressed with my numbers. :(
Check out my graph from the 5.3@ 9PSI vs. the 6.0@ 8PSI. I gained a whopping 30rwhp and 14rwtq by swapping to a 6L and a 210/218 .551 112lsa cam and dual springs. And if the numbers weren't depressing enough check out the TQ curve or lack there of.
On the 5.3 it shot up and leveled off with the 6L its a gradual climb. The 5.3 had the stock cam in it. I am wondering if this cam choice (suggested by Vinci) was the right choice.
Maybe I'm off here so you guys chime in. I don't think the gains were worth the effort. I also offer up that other than a Maganflow muffler the exhaust is stock. Maybe I'm chocking it off. The Pacesetter are still in my garage, no time to install just yet.
These runs were done on different dynos but both are DynoJets so I don't think they would be that much different.
Give me your thoughts.
QUOTE]

I didnt bother to read all the posts

that cam is whats killing it you have an NA cam on a 112 blowing all your boost right out the exhaust valve. This is why the stock 5.3 cam performs so much better. Swap in an lpegt2-3 and I wouldnt be suprised to see you gain at least 60rwhp and around 85rwtq. Hell even if you put the stock 5.3 cam in that 6.0 it would be a drastic improvement. You want something on a 117-120 lsa !!!

I didnt bother to read all the posts

that cam is whats killing it you have an NA cam on a 112 blowing all your boost right out the exhaust valve. This is why the stock 5.3 cam performs so much better. Swap in an lpegt2-3 and I wouldnt be suprised to see you gain at least 60rwhp and around 85rwtq. Hell even if you put the stock 5.3 cam in that 6.0 it would be a drastic improvement.


Actually the cam he is running has a -10 overlap which means it wont leak any boost. You can calculate overlap by adding the durations then divide by 4 and subtract from the LSA and then multiply by 2. The problem is the lack of duration in my opinion.

lets see the cam card, if that cam is anything like the VHP 210/218 cam it has over 50 degrees of overlap. Ib be willing to bet you can hear that thing lope.

1slowhoe:we need the cam card

I think the cam card may have gotten trashed:bang: I can't find it. But below are the specs. I thought there was a lot of overlap as well but Vinci, being the cam experts, said it would work great. I visited the Vinci shop a month ago and Roger Vinci told me I should be running my blower at an AFR of 12.8:eek2: With advice like that I am rethinking the cam recommendation. But, its in and its running and I have no intention of tearing back into it to swap cams anytime soon. But the were right about one thing, there is a load of low end tq with this cam.
DUR @ .004" 272*/280*
DUR @ .050" 210*/218*
LIFT .551 / .551
OVERLAP 52*
LSA 112*

"ASP-KICKER "
STREET / STRIP CAM - HIGH LIFT
POWER RANGE 1900 TO 6000
TUNING & STALL CONVERTER DESIRED
CRISP THROTTLE RESPONSE - LOADS OF "TORQUE"
" DRIVE - INN " IDLE

This is a little clip after the 1st 6L install with the Vinci cam. This was before tuning the engine. It had just the right amount of lope for me @ 550rpm but after tuning it the idle was turned up to 750-800 and the lope is gone:(
http://media.putfile.com/Vinci-062-cam

Don't you just love the gear knocking sound from the supercharger?Did you get the pilot bearing changed yet?

I went to work Thursday, came home and picked up the kids (3 each) Coached my sons T-ball game, watched my daughters softball game, came home. Removed bearing, installed tranny, TC, Y-pipe, drive shaft, hooked up all sensors, installed radix and all accessories. Filled fluids and fired that pig up. No SES lights and it ran fine. Drove to get gas and went to bed at 4am so I could get a 2 hour nap before work today. It drove pretty good other than some idle searching when shifting into reverse or quick stops at a red light. EFI live is ordered as well as my laptop. I should be logging by Monday:devil:
I have yet to "get on it" because I want to let the rings seat and do a little break in. I put 45 miles on it today. I want to take a hard look at my tune before I get into boost as well. This one has to last because I'm tired of engine swaps.:bang:

Good deal. I'd be easy on it too until you knew the tune was nailed down.
I never had any gear knock out of my Radix with a 216/224 114lsa on my 4.8. Maybe it is that 112lsa in yours causing it to be a little more choppy. Hmmmm. would really have to compare cam cards to know for sure. I have heard of people having the knock though.

On the original topic of the dyno comparison.
Do you know if they locked the converter on either one of those dyno's?
A locked converter will yield quite a bit more rwhp and tq. So if they locked it when the 5.3 was dynoed and did not lock it when the 6.0 was dynoed, that is why you arent seeing a big difference in the two setups.
It makes it hard to compare setups without knowing that. That is why you see guys scratching thier heads when comparing similar setups to dyno numbers. Knowing if the verter was locked is very important.

Actually the cam he is running has a -10 overlap which means it wont leak any boost. You can calculate overlap by adding the durations then divide by 4 and subtract from the LSA and then multiply by 2. The problem is the lack of duration in my opinion.
That number you get from that formula is not imperical, it is purely for reference. For example if you take that formula and compare it too a good blower cam like lpegt2-3 you get -23.5, a stock 5.3 cam has -22

my cam lopes like a son of a bitch and I get -2. Obviously you need something to compare that number too and when you look at it in reference to other cams you see that his cam does have alot of overlap especially for a blower. If he were to swap back to his stock cam hed pickup a good 50rwhp whoever told him to go with that cam for a blower app is a JACKASS.

That number you get from that formula is not imperical, it is purely for reference. For example if you take that formula and compare it too a good blower cam like lpegt2-3 you get -23.5, a stock 5.3 cam has -22

my cam lopes like a son of a bitch and I get -2. Obviously you need something to compare that number too and when you look at it in reference to other cams you see that his cam does have alot of overlap especially for a blower. If he were to swap back to his stock cam hed pickup a good 50rwhp whoever told him to go with that cam for a blower app is a JACKASS.


With a SC setup overlap doesnt really hurt performance that much because you want to finish the burning cycle and get the exhaust as fast as you can similar to a N/A setup, but not as radical. There are some people who are running large cams with 9 overlap and making great power. I think the problem is not overlap in his case... Its more of a lack of duration needed by his setup. I bet a cam with 2 to -2 overlap would pick up another 40-60rwhp over what he has now.

With a SC setup overlap doesnt really hurt performance that much because you want to finish the burning cycle and get the exhaust as fast as you can similar to a N/A setup, but not as radical. There are some people who are running large cams with 9 overlap and making great power. I think the problem is not overlap in his case... Its more of a lack of duration needed by his setup. I bet a cam with 2 to -2 overlap would pick up another 40-60rwhp over what he has now.
those larger cams are in light cars that make peak power around 6700+ and they are running 4k stall with higher compression. The overlap effect is alot less at higher rpm ranges. Its different for trucks that weigh alot we have to be alot more concerned with getting as much under the curve as possible and lower in the rpm range.
The more duration he throws at it will just make his curve more peaky and move it up in the rpms. Overlap matters alot especially with forced induction.

Im positive if he puts in the stock cam he will make more power under the curve and run better times, this is why his stock 5.3 graph looks alot better than his 6.0 and cam graph.

Well a cam swap right now is out of the question. But, when I get back from:bigun2: :kali: :usa: I might look into it. I wouldnt put the stock back in however. I guess I'll be cam shopping. Maybe a 220/220 .550 115lsa?? Or should a do a split or reverse?

On the original topic of the dyno comparison.
Do you know if they locked the converter on either one of those dyno's?
A locked converter will yield quite a bit more rwhp and tq. So if they locked it when the 5.3 was dynoed and did not lock it when the 6.0 was dynoed, that is why you arent seeing a big difference in the two setups.
It makes it hard to compare setups without knowing that. That is why you see guys scratching thier heads when comparing similar setups to dyno numbers. Knowing if the verter was locked is very important.
On the 5.3: Stock converter -Locked
On the 6.0: 2600 stall-Locked

Well a cam swap right now is out of the question. But, when I get back from:bigun2: :kali: :usa: I might look into it. I wouldnt put the stock back in however. I guess I'll be cam shopping. Maybe a 220/220 .550 115lsa?? Or should a do a split or reverse?

Id go with lpegt2-3 that cam is proven

All the engines I have seen with the GT2-3 were 5.3L. Anybody put one in a 6L radix truck? Same results?

All the engines I have seen with the GT2-3 were 5.3L. Anybody put one in a 6L radix truck? Same results?

CHarris did and in his H2. He went from a much larger cam like a 215+/222+ and said there was a little or no difference with the smaller gt2-3 cam. Whitt1 is running the gt2-3 in his 402 stroker motor. Check with those guys and see what there thoughts are.

Charris picked up around 50rwhp and so did blown if I remember correctly.

http://performancetrucks.net/forums/showthread.php?t=362080

I picked up 65rwhp. The GT2-3 is tested and proven...