There needs to be some Hemi guys chime in on this thread. It seems everyone thinks a stock 5.3 can take a stock hemi. In my experience I havent seen it that way. Hemi guys tell your side in that thread. Later.

I have only seen a few stock hemis run at the track and on the streets but from the numbers and times that i have seen, i believe that a stock hemi will beat a 5.3 most of the time given that the trucks are of similar style(ec, sb, 2wd/4 etc). I saw a stock 2wd qcab hemi run 16.0 @ 85 and a single cab 2wd hemi run 15.5 @ 88 if that helps any. At the same track as the single cab hemi, there was a 2wd single cab 5.3 running 15.7/8 @ 86.

There needs to be some Hemi guys chime in on this thread. It seems everyone thinks a stock 5.3 can take a stock hemi. In my experience I havent seen it that way. Hemi guys tell your side in that thread. Later.
Im not a dodge guy but the hemi would win 99% of the time most of the guys on here are biased.

Having owned both I would say Dodge 99% when it is apples-apples. The GM's respond better to basic mods and have more potential, at least for now. Someday we'll get a full computer tuning kit and life should be better.

ktm
I made a phone call today. I don't know if you've gotten wind of what's going on with my truck right now or not (i cant say, had to sign nondisclosure) but soon I'll have to have a tune. If it doesn't come back with enuff tune I'm seriously considering the Megasquirt. Did a lot of reading and made taht phone call and it seems like it could be the answer. We may see ;)

I've owned both and my 04 4x2 Hemi Ram QC would have beaten my 00 4x2 5.3L EC Silverado, no question. The Silverado had 3.73 gears and 255/70R16 tires and the Hemi has 3.92 gears and came with (don't have them now) 275/60R20's. The 20's are alot heavier and taller which cancels out the lower rearend gear ratio. Didn't have a G-tech back the so I used a stop watch, the Silverado did 0-60 dead stock in an average of 7.35 seconds, the Ram did it in 6.75 dead stock. Both would have produced slower times now that I have a G-tech and realize my stop watch times were to fast but, it did show me that the Ram was faster.
Jim

Colt, I will be watching with open eyes/ears for your progress. I looked heavily into the MS unit when I had the turbo and liked it a lot, mainly for the price. Downside was that it could not control timing unless the Furd EDIS crank pickup was used ( like the Hot Rod magazine test ). I understand that MS was going to figure out how to use the GM/DC crank pickup and coil-on-plug signals which would then allow control of spark and timing. This would put it above the SMT6 unit for price and adjustability.
Keep on truckin' and posting results!

Yeah the hemi's gonna take the 5.3L, but they should really be putting the hemi against some ppl that have stock 6.0 swapped in or the 5.7ls1 engine. The 5.2 need to be compared to the 5.3 and the 4.7 compared to the 4.8. I think if you take each motor and put in a 2wd rcsb truck that the chevrolet will come out on top on all of them in stock form. Yes i know that's not what the thread was saying, but that IMO is how they should be compared

Agreed, the DC 4.7L motor is nice but the GM 4.8L will smoke it. Likewise the "LS1" motor I built would eat my Hemi alive ( although it is 5.7L vs 6.3L ).

Agreed, the DC 4.7L motor is nice but the GM 4.8L will smoke it. Likewise the "LS1" motor I built would eat my Hemi alive ( although it is 5.7L vs 6.3L ).

You should match your 6.3 to a 6.1 Hemi. That would be a nice match. 425 hp and 420 tq right out of the box.

I dont know, but i have a question for some of you guys, ive seen a few posts about bone stock 4.7s vs bone stock 4.8s and some of the times were similar, dont know but seems like the chevys would have an advantage noting that they come out with more hp. I took my RCSB to the track with nothing on it, it was bone stock, 3.55 peg-leg and stock 17s and ran consistant 16.1-2s. Some times i have seen are comparable to mine and they were driving 4.8s. Could this be possible?? Or does this seem like driver error on the driver?

I have not since takin it to the track with what i have on it now, but i will for sure be in the 15s- this is with just a hand full of light mods.

I believe it in stock form, however it seems like the 4.8 responds better to mods over the 4.7.

I wish I could find a 5.3L to race, but none will step up to the plate. Only chevy's I've run have been older ones with 454's and 350's, they all get stomped on. Also have had a chipped duramax take a run, that was closer but the hemi still came out on top.

All Chevys will respond better to their mods as long as DC products do not have true tuning ability...

TJ

All Chevys will respond better to their mods as long as DC products do not have true tuning ability...

TJ
And as long as there is not true tuning ability there will not be more and better mods to do.

Yes, i definately agree with you guys, the 4.8 kicks @zz with mods, and with a huge selection of parts and interchangeable parts bins, its incredible with what GMs guys can do with all there motors. DC definately sucks in my opinion when it comes to tuning for our engines, especially the 4.7s. I love my truck just wish there was a hell of alot more attainable mods, other than major internal changes.

A good comparison of 345HP would be a QC 2x4 VS a xcab GM 345HP VHO
Run them heads up,then run them with catbacks then compair them CIA compair then give the hemi the best programmer availible VS a custom dyno tune for the GM since that is what is availible.Anyone care to guess the results of that kind of comparison? Next would be do the same thing with a RCSB hemi VS a 5.3 RCSB GM,both basic trucks with there best gear availible.Anyone care to guess that outcome?
you could continue the mod comparison by adding longtubes and converters.Doesnt this seem like a fair way to compair?

A good comparison of 345HP would be a QC 2x4 VS a xcab GM 345HP VHO
Run them heads up,then run them with catbacks then compair them CIA compair then give the hemi the best programmer availible VS a custom dyno tune for the GM since that is what is availible.Anyone care to guess the results of that kind of comparison? Next would be do the same thing with a RCSB hemi VS a 5.3 RCSB GM,both basic trucks with there best gear availible.Anyone care to guess that outcome?
you could continue the mod comparison by adding longtubes and converters.Doesnt this seem like a fair way to compair?


Well if take your 345 HP Chevy and match it to a B&G custom tuned PCM Hemi(currently the only folks offering custom tuning) and start adding mods you will be suprised. Rumor is they made 40-60 HP at the crank from a stock truck. A bit hard for me to believe but if you take into account that the Hemi barely pass emissions, I.E. de-tuned to pass, than is more believable.

stock vs. stock was fun... and then there was aftermarket

Well if take your 345 HP Chevy and match it to a B&G custom tuned PCM Hemi(currently the only folks offering custom tuning) and start adding mods you will be suprised. Rumor is they made 40-60 HP at the crank from a stock truck. A bit hard for me to believe but if you take into account that the Hemi barely pass emissions, I.E. de-tuned to pass, than is more believable.


Were you around when the first programmers for the hemis were being talked about? the rumors then was 40-60HP,I think since there have been no graphs posted you might as well take it with a grain of salt

I picked up about 60rwhp from a cam and a custom tune on a 2nd gear dyno with the new torque converter (that is proven to show hp loss on the dyno). Guesstimates (since they couldn't get her to hold 3rd) are closer to 70-75rwhp in a 3rd gear 1:1 run. Made 314rwhp on the dyno on that 2nd gear run on 22's. Talked to the company that did the tune they say closer to 330-340rwhp. I should get it back around Halloween- then we'll redyno to see what I find.

Well if take your 345 HP Chevy and match it to a B&G custom tuned PCM Hemi(currently the only folks offering custom tuning) and start adding mods you will be suprised. Rumor is they made 40-60 HP at the crank from a stock truck. A bit hard for me to believe but if you take into account that the Hemi barely pass emissions, I.E. de-tuned to pass, than is more believable.

Avsfan on another site went whole hog and installed a stand-alone Tec3 computer and tranny controller. Comparing his dyno runs to another STS turbo truck he made an additional 60hp and 70trq to the wheels. This points towards what we thought for awhile, the PCM tuning is WAAAY conservative to help meet the 7/70 powertrain warranty. BTW, Dodge is changing the warranty in 2006 to 3/36. Also a good confirmation is how they rate the crank HP at 345 and most chassis dyno runs get 260 to the wheels. That is a ton of drivetrain loss.
The programmers are showing gains of 20 HP or so average with some peaks of 30 HP at certain RPMs. Again if we could get full control of the operating parameters we could hope to see gains like Avsfan did ( but not at the high cost of a stand-alone and installation ).

Its all about the "what if"

I picked up about 60rwhp from a cam and a custom tune on a 2nd gear dyno with the new torque converter (that is proven to show hp loss on the dyno). Guesstimates (since they couldn't get her to hold 3rd) are closer to 70-75rwhp in a 3rd gear 1:1 run. Made 314rwhp on the dyno on that 2nd gear run on 22's. Talked to the company that did the tune they say closer to 330-340rwhp. I should get it back around Halloween- then we'll redyno to see what I find.

what are you getting done...or is it a secret! :judge:

Its all about the "what if"
Not if anymore- It's when (it's released)

what are you getting done...or is it a secret!
:secret: if I could tell, I would (I'm bound by a nondisclosure agreement right now)

Not if anymore- It's when (it's released)


:secret: if I could tell, I would (I'm bound by a nondisclosure agreement right now)
Is the B&G the secret?Is it snake oil all over again with big promisis?

You guys need to go post some more on that 5.3 vs. hemi thread. There are a few chevy pricks that could use a nice ass kicking.

I would love to race you in my 4x4 xcab,it would be a good race.If you want to race a N/A 5.3 RCSB you are about a second slow.

I would love to race you in my 4x4 xcab,it would be a good race.If you want to race a N/A 5.3 RCSB you are about a second slow.
I wasn't calling you a chevy prick. There are just a few guys that no matter what say CHEVY, CHEVY, CHEVY. I am a big fan of all trucks...ford, chevy, dodge, GMC, etc...I just dont appreciate the peole that say "dodge sucks", but then dont give a reason why. Thats like complaining, but not doing anything to fix the problem. If someone has a problem with dodge, then at least tell me why...I am just upset. I'm sorry if you took offense to what I said.

And I wish Dodge had your kind of aftermarket...Until we learn how to tune these Hemi's, we arn't going to get much faster without a buttload of spray.

Im like you I like the friendly competition,cant really knock dodge, a lot of people are dam happy with them

Gonzo, you gonna have to explain that second slow remark, mjfick and I run very close times and I crucify 95% of the 5.3's that I run across and those that outrun me are more than a few mods......
TJ

Gonzo, you gonna have to explain that second slow remark, mjfick and I run very close times and I crucify 95% of the 5.3's that I run across and those that outrun me are more than a few mods......
TJ
Read his sig...it says he dropped in a 6.0, and has a nice list of mods on top of that!! I believe it.

HERE IS ONE EXAMPLE
http://www.performancetrucks.net/forums/member.php?userid=32778

you may not be impressed but i am

Are you sure he didn't mistype that and run a 13.95 @ 97mph instead of a 12.95?? I ran 13.99 @ 98.89mph. How is my mph 2 mph higher, but my times are 1 second slower???

Read his sig...it says he dropped in a 6.0, and has a nice list of mods on top of that!! I believe it.

Mine would run close to yours

Mine would run close to yours
What do you think about that other guys times though?? Why is his mph so low if he is running a 12.95?? He should at least be hitting 105mph.

With your MPH you should be a second quicker,looks like your making more HP,get yours to hook.

Read his sig...it says he dropped in a 6.0, and has a nice list of mods on top of that!! I believe it.

well actually I was talking about the 5.3 .... and Looking at your sig Gonzo I would think you would run those times... quite a few mods you have there.... I have no trouble believing that

TJ

What do you think about that other guys times though?? Why is his mph so low if he is running a 12.95?? He should at least be hitting 105mph.

I have to agree.... why the low MPH....???

TJ

With your MPH you should be a second quicker,looks like your making more HP,get yours to hook.

I have run a 1.827 60's with the 35 shot and a 99 mph... no hook probs there

TJ

I do have traction issues. My 60' on that 13.99 pass was a 2.03. I ran that on the stock skinny 245/70/17's...But I still dont think that will drop 1 full second off my times.

HERE IS ONE EXAMPLE
http://www.performancetrucks.net/forums/member.php?userid=32778

you may not be impressed but i am

Yes high 12's are impressive, let us see how long it takes the Hemi crowd to go 12's N/A once we get the PCM editor.. I do not think it will be much longer..

TJ

I do have traction issues. My 60' on that 13.99 pass was a 2.03. I ran that on the stock skinny 245/70/17's...But I still dont think that will drop 1 full second off my times.

Man your mph just goes to show me how badly I need the exhaust system...

TJ

Yes high 12's are impressive, let us see how long it takes the Hemi crowd to go 12's N/A once we get the PCM editor.. I do not think it will be much longer..

TJ
Once you get that you guys should be shooting for low 10s if you want to stay with the chevy boys

Man your mph just goes to show me how badly I need the exhaust system...

TJ
And I ran that mph the night I was with you guys. I wish I could have caught some good air. I normally run 80-81mph in the 1/8th, but that night by best 1/8 mph was 78.82. With good air, I think my truck will go 13.7's @ 101mph....N/A!!

Once you get that you guys should be shooting for low 10s if you want to stay with the chevy boys
Well dont rub it in our face or anything...HAHAHA!!

Once you get that you guys should be shooting for low 10s if you want to stay with the chevy boys

oh we WILL be there, Believe it! That is our only obstacle...
everything else is just waiting on that..

TJ

Hey your all right,I like your attitude.You have to excuse me ,i need to go pick up my neighbor buddys dodge and work on it in my shop,well its his 70 power wagon,he is a dodge nut major

Oh the tuning capabilities are here- just a matter of implementing. The bugs that need to be worked out have nothing to do with the actual tune or the way the motor runs, it has everything to do with CELS and the fact that it will not be released by this company until they can make it that they don't show.

Oh the tuning capabilities are here- just a matter of implementing. The bugs that need to be worked out have nothing to do with the actual tune or the way the motor runs, it has everything to do with CELS and the fact that it will not be released by this company until they can make it that they don't show.

Yea I a glad they are at least making that much effort!
but I really want a computer program on par with LS1Edit! I get the feeling that nothing is going to work for us guys on the 03's..... I notice that SuperChips is not offering the FlashPaq upgrades for us 03 guys.... they will not even return my emails with a " kiss our A.." :bang:
I suppose I should not bitch as my programmer was worth a couple of tenths... but then who is ever satisfied with how fast their ride is?????

TJ

I dont know, but i have a question for some of you guys, ive seen a few posts about bone stock 4.7s vs bone stock 4.8s and some of the times were similar, dont know but seems like the chevys would have an advantage noting that they come out with more hp. I took my RCSB to the track with nothing on it, it was bone stock, 3.55 peg-leg and stock 17s and ran consistant 16.1-2s. Some times i have seen are comparable to mine and they were driving 4.8s. Could this be possible?? Or does this seem like driver error on the driver?

I have not since takin it to the track with what i have on it now, but i will for sure be in the 15s- this is with just a hand full of light mods.

i got about 7 or 8 runs in on a bone stock 4.8 rcsb and got 16.0's all but twice (driver error), i have 3.42 gears and the weather was hot and humid, i was trapping at 88 mph most runs. im postive i could have gotten high 15's on a different night. I was holding first and 2nd gear longer than it would do on its own, that might be why my trap speed is that high.

As for bluecajun's times and mph, i think he said he was braket racing and feathered it toward the end, i think he said on an all out run he was shootin for 12.6's or so

but I really want a computer program on par with LS1Edit! I get the feeling that nothing is going to work for us guys on the 03's.....
TJ- check out www.msefi.com (Megasquirt)
I've been talking to a guy that thinks it would be rather easy to adapt this to the hemi. In fact, come Halloween (or maybe Thanksgiving- not sure when my truck is going to be done) but if my tune is not what I want it to be I'm planning to send it to have this set up installed. Just read up on it when you get a chance.

As for bluecajun's times and mph, i think he said he was braket racing and feathered it toward the end, i think he said on an all out run he was shootin for 12.6's or so
Well that makes more sense and I can accept that, those are smoking times for his mods!

TJ

TJ- check out www.msefi.com (Megasquirt)
I've been talking to a guy that thinks it would be rather easy to adapt this to the hemi. In fact, come Halloween (or maybe Thanksgiving- not sure when my truck is going to be done) but if my tune is not what I want it to be I'm planning to send it to have this set up installed. Just read up on it when you get a chance.
Thankx for the link Colt, I have been following that since Parish brought it up in another thread. It does seem to be interesting but still seems like a patch job to me but one that may be workable ... can't hardly wait til All Hollows Eve! I know it's even moreso for YOU!

TJ

before my tune, the hemi beat me. my nose was at his tailgate. after the tune, a stock hemi cant touch me. pretty respectable trucks tho!! im sure that if the hemi pulled up next to me with the superchips, that it would be a really interesting race, probably like flip a coin. ohh well if someone lives in the vegas area wants to hand me my ass just pm me.

my latest race was a hemi debaged 4x4 RC and i got him by ~1.5-2 lenghs. i had a full tank too. its just that with out TM my truck pulls very nicely in second gear.

peace outty

Some see you as having an unfair advantage if you were to race a QC hemi because of the weight difference,of course they dont take into account the HP and cubes advantage the hemi has,they still see it as unfair inspite of the fact GM can engineer a truck with out a lot of added weight.

Aw geez, Gonzo.... ok you have a point, let me see what, 19 cubic inches.. or close. Now what is the weight difference??? let me see a Hemi QC 4X4... what I know of some that weigh 5200+ race weight, I cannot think of any I have heard of weighing less and some that weigh over 5600. But let us take the low number... now, zo6freak, would you mind letting us know what your race weight is?????

Now that part will have to slide for a while till we get an answer,
However my truck race ready weighs 4750 or thereabouts depending on how much fuel I take to the track.... now that is with significant weight reduction, stock was 4880 lbs w/ 1/4 tank. I race quite a few 5.3 stcb trucks that weigh in the 4100 lbs range with approximately the same type of weight reductions. Now tell me Gonzo???
How many more 100's of lbs do I need to carry to make up for those few extra cubic inches???? from my side of the world looks like I am carrying about 600+ lbs... What you wish I would carry a few hundred more???? Most do.....
Can't wait to hear zo6freak's weight.....

TJ

All i am saying is anyone making an excuse that there truck is slow do to the way the factory built it maybe should have looked at buying something else.

My old 2000 5.3L EC Silverado weighed 4810 lbs if I remember correctly, it had 3.73 gears and 30" tall tires. My 2004 QC Hemi Ram weighed 5280 lbs when I weighed it with the factory 20's and nerf bars, I now have 17's and nerf bars are off so I'll say it weighs about (?) 5175-5200 lbs. It has 31.6" tall tires and 3.92 gears. If you divide the truck weight and the engine HP on the Silverado (4810 / 285 = 16.8) you get 1 hp for every 16.8 lbs.. With the Ram you get (5175 / 345 = 15) 1 hp for every 15 lbs., so the power to weight ratio favors the Ram. The Ram has taller tires so that hurts but the lower gears help, so the tire gear/combo is a push in my opinion. Then there's the trans gearing which I don't know how they compare so I can't say. So you can say the Ram is heavier but it does make more power but it's also trying to turn taller tires if it has the 17's and much taller tires if it has the 20's. Overall, I think the trucks match up well in the checks and balances department.
Jim

I cant believe how heavy those dodges are... I think the best comparison would be the LS1/6 and the hemi. They are the same liter size.

If you think that's heavy look at a new Ford lol. What do the new GM trucks weigh compared to the old ones?

What's the deal with the displacement comparison? GM could have put an LS1 in their 1500 RCSB 2x4 if they wanted (it'd be a big seller if they did) but they don't... Ford biggest engine is the 5.4L in their RCSB 2x4 so that's what everyone compares to. To me apples to apples is the 5.3L/5.4L/5.7L comparison :confused:

I have a 2000 GMC 4.8L TB spacer/ FM Exhaust the rest stock and I ran a Hemi at the track that was RC had an exhaust and had the factory 20's, and he ran a 15.8 and I ran a 15.7 I thought I had him but it was close.

I have a 2000 GMC 4.8L TB spacer/ FM Exhaust the rest stock and I ran a Hemi at the track that was RC had an exhaust and had the factory 20's, and he ran a 15.8 and I ran a 15.7 I thought I had him but it was close.
A 15.8 is a very slow time for a RC/SB hemi. Most run low 15's completely stock.

I have seen RCSB Hemis run low 15's and high 14'5... at fastest... But then again its AZ.. I can pull mid 14's but only during the winter... When its 70 and below.. (and truck is running right)Yeah our winters are like other peolpes summers.

Sorry, I dont believe the Simular trucks, one Hemi one 5.3 that the Hemi would win.

My ext cab 5.3 with only free mods, flow pro muffler and K&N drop in ran 14.7@92.?. I have yet to see an ext cab Hemi get closer than .5 to that. Even the reg cabs with 20's dont hit those numbers.

Sorry, I dont believe the Simular trucks, one Hemi one 5.3 that the Hemi would win.

My ext cab 5.3 with only free mods, flow pro muffler and K&N drop in ran 14.7@92.?. I have yet to see an ext cab Hemi get closer than .5 to that. Even the reg cabs with 20's dont hit those numbers.

You are going to have to crawfish on that one Snake.... My Reg Cab ran 14.50's with the 20's STOCK, Full Stock exhaust system and my homemade CAI ( we will trade that for your muffler ) and the wire pull.... and 14.30's with the addition of the Superchips.. :engarde:

TJ

You are going to have to crawfish on that one Snake.... My Reg Cab ran 14.50's with the 20's STOCK, Full Stock exhaust system and my homemade CAI ( we will trade that for your muffler ) and the wire pull.... and 14.30's with the addition of the Superchips.. :engarde:

TJ
I dont doubt it, and totaly believe you. Some trucks just run better than others, and some drivers just do the right things. I've just never been lucky enough to get to see someone run there Hemi that well. With the specs, gears, and rev limmiter it should happen with all reg cabs.

Has a company come out with cams or stall comverters yet for the Hemi? Thats when the numbers will get really good I bet. They seem to be more mid and top end engines like the LSx's.

I dont doubt it, and totaly believe you. Some trucks just run better than others, and some drivers just do the right things. I've just never been lucky enough to get to see someone run there Hemi that well. With the specs, gears, and rev limmiter it should happen with all reg cabs.

Has a company come out with cams or stall comverters yet for the Hemi? Thats when the numbers will get really good I bet. They seem to be more mid and top end engines like the LSx's.

yes there are some torque converters and cams available.. what is not available is a PCM Editor... so no custom tunes yet..

TJ

What stall speeds are there? A simple 3k stall will get you .5 in the 1/4.

What stall speeds are there? A simple 3k stall will get you .5 in the 1/4.
I think the highest stall they have available right now is a 2600 stall. Does it really drop .5 on the chevy's?? What if you are already starting with a 13 second truck...do you think I will still drop a half second with just a high stall convertor??

Mine is a 2800 stall- Edge Racing Products.
They custom build to your specs. I cannot give any track times since I haven't been back to the track since I installed it. Butt Dyno tells me it's a great mod.

And I know of at least one hemi running around with a custom tune :naughty:

Mine is a 2800 stall- Edge Racing Products.
They custom build to your specs. I cannot give any track times since I haven't been back to the track since I installed it. Butt Dyno tells me it's a great mod.

And I know of at least one hemi running around with a custom tune :naughty:


HA!! have you got it back yet?

TJ

some friend in houston told me that a guy was going to tune his truck for 350 dollars a 2005 ram hemi burgundy wonder if hes bullshitting. ??????

some friend in houston told me that a guy was going to tune his truck for 350 dollars a 2005 ram hemi burgundy wonder if hes bullshitting. ??????
The only tune we can get for $350 is Hypeertech or superchips. B&G Chrysler has a tune available for $450, but there are no proven results yet. It also sounds like KRC finally has something available for the Hemi guys, but I dont know the cost or power gains.

I think the highest stall they have available right now is a 2600 stall. Does it really drop .5 on the chevy's?? What if you are already starting with a 13 second truck...do you think I will still drop a half second with just a high stall convertor??
Yes it drops the chevy's .5 from what ever your running. Sometimes a little more and sometimes a little less. Thats with slicks though, because your gonna need them unless you have 4x4. Your 60' usually drops .2-.3 which is where you make up the .5 in the 1/4. For every .1 you knock off your 60' thats worth .2 in the 1/4.

I'd love to see a Hemi rc/sb with a 3k stall, bolt ons, slicks, and a 150 shot run. I bet it would hit low 12's, maybe even an 11 with a hard launch and alot of weight reduction. :drive: